Mapping tensor products into a Clifford algebra

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mapping of tensor products of vector spaces into a Clifford algebra defined by a quadratic form. Participants explore various methods and implications of such mappings, particularly focusing on the vector spaces ##V## and ##V^*## and their tensor products, including ##V\otimes V^*##, ##V^*\otimes V##, ##V\otimes V##, and ##V^*\otimes V^*##. The conversation includes theoretical considerations and the implications of different mappings within the context of Clifford algebras.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose viewing ##V\otimes V^*## as an element of ##\operatorname{End}(V)##, suggesting that this perspective may help in mapping to ##Cl(W,Q)##.
  • Others argue that the realization of ##Cl(W,Q)## as a tensor algebra could provide a clearer framework for mapping, emphasizing the invariance of the ideal ##\mathcal{I}## under the mapping.
  • A later reply questions the significance of the ordering in tensor products and suggests that distinguishing between ##V## and ##V^*## is crucial to avoid arbitrary isomorphisms.
  • Participants discuss the need to verify the validity of specific mappings, such as ##\phi(T) = T_i^j \phi(e_j)\phi(e^i)## and ##\phi(S) = T^j_i\phi(e^i)\phi(e_j)##, raising concerns about the implications of bilinearity and the structure of the mappings.
  • There is a mention of the equivalence of definitions of Clifford algebras, with some participants expressing uncertainty about the implications of these definitions on the mappings.
  • Some participants highlight the importance of conditions imposed by the quadratic form, particularly regarding the mapping of ##v\otimes v## to ##-Q(v)\cdot 1_{Cl}##.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the mappings and the significance of various definitions related to Clifford algebras. There is no consensus on the best approach to mapping tensor products into the Clifford algebra, and several competing perspectives remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations regarding the assumptions made in defining mappings and the potential arbitrariness introduced by isomorphisms between ##V## and ##V^*##. The discussion also highlights the need for careful consideration of bilinearity and the implications of the quadratic form on the mappings.

jv07cs
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Considering a vector space ##W = V\oplus V^*## equipped with quadratic form Q such that we have a clifford algebra ##Cl(W, Q)##. How can I map elements of ##V\otimes V^*## into elements of ##Cl(W, Q)##? What about elements of ##V^* \otimes V##, ##V\otimes V## and ##V^* \otimes V^*## into ##Cl(W, Q)##?
 
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What is your desire?
What is your favorite color?
How fast is a swallow?

Means, what are you aiming to achieve? I like to think of ##V\otimes V^*## as an element of ##\operatorname{End}(V)## given by ##\left(\sum_\rho u_\rho \otimes \overline{v}_\rho\right)(w)=\sum_\rho \overline{v}_\rho(w)\cdot u_\rho\,,## i.e. a matrix. Now you are asking how you can map an endomorphism of ##V## into ##Cl(W,Q).## This looks a bit arbitrary to me.

Let's see whether the realization of ##Cl(W,Q)## as a tensor algebra can help. This would mean to map
$$
V\otimes V^* \stackrel{\varphi}{\longrightarrow} \bigoplus_{n\ge 0}(V\oplus V^*)^{\otimes n} /\underbrace{\bigl\langle (u+\overline{v})+(\overline{v}+u)+Q(u,\overline{v}) \bigr\rangle }_{=\mathcal{I}}.
$$
This view has two advantages: The ideal ##\mathcal{I}## should be invariant under ##\varphi##, and we can see the arbitrariness better since ##V\otimes V^*## has many occurrences on the right and you can simply choose one of them.

Another method would be the following:
Consider ##V## and ##V^*## as elements of ##Cl(W,Q)## via the embeddings ## u\longmapsto (u+0) \cdot 1_{Cl}## and ##\overline{v}\longmapsto (0+\overline{v})\cdot 1_{Cl}## and the tensor product as multiplication in ##Cl(W,Q).## Then
$$
\varphi \left(\sum_\rho u_\rho\otimes \overline{v}_\rho\right)=\sum_\rho \left( \left(u_\rho+0) \cdot 1_{Cl}\right)\cdot \left((0+\overline{v}_\rho)\cdot 1_{Cl}\right)\right)
$$
In this case, the arbitrariness is hidden in the embedding.

My original question stands: what is your desire?
 
fresh_42 said:
What is your desire?
What is your favorite color?
How fast is a swallow?

Means, what are you aiming to achieve? I like to think of ##V\otimes V^*## as an element of ##\operatorname{End}(V)## given by ##\left(\sum_\rho u_\rho \otimes \overline{v}_\rho\right)(w)=\sum_\rho \overline{v}_\rho(w)\cdot u_\rho\,,## i.e. a matrix. Now you are asking how you can map an endomorphism of ##V## into ##Cl(W,Q).## This looks a bit arbitrary to me.

Let's see whether the realization of ##Cl(W,Q)## as a tensor algebra can help. This would mean to map
$$
V\otimes V^* \stackrel{\varphi}{\longrightarrow} \bigoplus_{n\ge 0}(V\oplus V^*)^{\otimes n} /\underbrace{\bigl\langle (u+\overline{v})+(\overline{v}+u)+Q(u,\overline{v}) \bigr\rangle }_{=\mathcal{I}}.
$$
This view has two advantages: The ideal ##\mathcal{I}## should be invariant under ##\varphi##, and we can see the arbitrariness better since ##V\otimes V^*## has many occurrences on the right and you can simply choose one of them.

Another method would be the following:
Consider ##V## and ##V^*## as elements of ##Cl(W,Q)## via the embeddings ## u\longmapsto (u+0) \cdot 1_{Cl}## and ##\overline{v}\longmapsto (0+\overline{v})\cdot 1_{Cl}## and the tensor product as multiplication in ##Cl(W,Q).## Then
$$
\varphi \left(\sum_\rho u_\rho\otimes \overline{v}_\rho\right)=\sum_\rho \left( \left(u_\rho+0) \cdot 1_{Cl}\right)\cdot \left((0+\overline{v}_\rho)\cdot 1_{Cl}\right)\right)
$$
In this case, the arbitrariness is hidden in the embedding.

My original question stands: what is your desire?
My original question was very unspecific indeed. I want to investigate endomorphisms inside ##Cl(W, Q)## induced by endomorphisms in ##V## and ##V^*##.

Taking ##T = T_i^j e_j \otimes e^i \in End(V)##, for example. I want to view this ##T## as an element of ##Cl(W, Q)##, let's denote it by ##\phi(T)## (where ##\phi## is the clifford map), so that I can study ##\phi(Tv)## (where ##Tv \equiv (Tv, 0) \in W##) as some relation between ##\phi(T)## and ##\phi(v)##.

From your reply, if I understood correctly, there is an arbitrariness in the choice of ##\phi(T)##. My question is what would I have to verify to ensure that my choice of ##\phi(T)## is valid? How could I verify if, for example, ##\phi(T) = T_i^j \phi(e_j)\phi(e^i)## and ##\phi(S) = T^j_i\phi(e^i)\phi(e_j)## (where ##S = T^j_i e^i\otimes e_j##, notice the change in the ordering of the tensor product) are valid choices?
 
jv07cs said:
My original question was very unspecific indeed. I want to investigate endomorphisms inside ##Cl(W, Q)## induced by endomorphisms in ##V## and ##V^*##.

Taking ##T = T_i^j e_j \otimes e^i \in End(V)##, for example. I want to view this ##T## as an element of ##Cl(W, Q)##, let's denote it by ##\phi(T)## (where ##\phi## is the clifford map), so that I can study ##\phi(Tv)## (where ##Tv \equiv (Tv, 0) \in W##) as some relation between ##\phi(T)## and ##\phi(v)##.

What do you mean by Clifford map? The quotient of the tensor algebra by the ideal ##\mathcal{I}## I mentioned, or your proposed map? I don't think the ordering plays a role as long as ##V## and ##V^*## are distinguishable. I wouldn't use ##V\cong V^*## anywhere as it creates a new kind of arbitrariness since this isomorphism isn't natural.

jv07cs said:
From your reply, if I understood correctly, there is an arbitrariness in the choice of ##\phi(T)##. My question is what would I have to verify to ensure that my choice of ##\phi(T)## is valid? How could I verify if, for example, ##\phi(T) = T_i^j \phi(e_j)\phi(e^i)## and ##\phi(S) = T^j_i\phi(e^i)\phi(e_j)## (where ##S = T^j_i e^i\otimes e_j##, notice the change in the ordering of the tensor product) are valid choices?
Bilinearity is usually achieved per definition: you define the map on dyads ##u\otimes \overline{v}## and extend it bilinearly. You have a tiny part ##V\otimes V^*## of the tensor algebra of ##W.## You can embed it (in many ways) and build the quotient by ##\mathcal{I}## afterward.

Since ##V## and ##V^*## are different, you won't have a diagonal ##v\otimes v## that had to be mapped to ##-Q(v)\cdot 1_{Cl}.## You can simply use the multiplication in the Clifford algebra:
$$
u\otimes \overline{v}\longmapsto (u+0) \cdot_{Cl} (0+\overline{v})\,.
$$
 
fresh_42 said:
What do you mean by Clifford map? The quotient of the tensor algebra by the ideal I I mentioned, or your proposed map?
I am referring to the following definition of a clifford algebra:
1734084349715.png


But I believe it is equivalent to the quotient algebra definition. My understanding of clifford algebras is quite basic, I hadn't really studied its definition as a quotient algebra, but, if I understood correctly, the equivalence classes satisfy ##[w\otimes w] = [Q(w)] \in Cl(W,Q) = T(V)/\mathcal{I}##, then I represent this as

$$w\cdot_{Cl} w = Q(w)\cdot_{Cl} 1_{Cl}$$

Or, equivalently (I think), using the clifford mapping ##\phi##

$$\phi(w)\cdot_{Cl} \phi(w) = Q(w)\cdot_{Cl} 1_{Cl}$$

Is this correct?
fresh_42 said:
I wouldn't use V≅V∗ anywhere as it creates a new kind of arbitrariness since this isomorphism isn't natural.
Well, I could define a natural isomorphims by introducing a metric structure on ##V##. Don't know if that would make the ordering significant.

fresh_42 said:
Bilinearity is usually achieved per definition: you define the map on dyads u⊗v― and extend it bilinearly. You have a tiny part V⊗V∗ of the tensor algebra of W. You can embed it (in many ways) and build the quotient by I afterward.
Would it then suffice to simply define a valid homomorphism between ##End(V)## and ##Cl(W, Q)##?
 
jv07cs said:
Is this correct?
Yes, except that it should be ##w\cdot_{Cl} w=-Q(w)\cdot 1_{Cl}.## We imitate the imaginary unit!
jv07cs said:
Well, I could define a natural isomorphims by introducing a metric structure on ##V##. Don't know if that would make the ordering significant.
I think that distinction is important, not so much the order. E.g., if we consider mappings ##V\otimes V \rightarrow Cl(V,Q)\subseteq Cl(W,Q)## then ##v\otimes v## must map to ##-Q(v)\cdot 1_{Cl}## which may restrict the possible images for ##v,## i.e. we have another condition that has to be fulfilled. This is probably no problem but we have to keep it in mind. We map the diagonal on ##\mathbb{R}\cdot 1_{Cl}.## There is no correspondence in a domain ##V\otimes V^*.##

jv07cs said:
Would it then suffice to simply define a valid homomorphism between ##End(V)## and ##Cl(W, Q)##?
That is my understanding, yes.
 
fresh_42 said:
Yes, except that it should be ##w\cdot_{Cl} w=-Q(w)\cdot 1_{Cl}.## We imitate the imaginary unit!

I think that distinction is important, not so much the order. E.g., if we consider mappings ##V\otimes V \rightarrow Cl(V,Q)\subseteq Cl(W,Q)## then ##v\otimes v## must map to ##-Q(v)\cdot 1_{Cl}## which may restrict the possible images for ##v,## i.e. we have another condition that has to be fulfilled. This is probably no problem but we have to keep it in mind. We map the diagonal on ##\mathbb{R}\cdot 1_{Cl}.## There is no correspondence in a domain ##V\otimes V^*.##


That is my understanding, yes.
Got it. Just one last quick question: If I consider ##B## to be the bilinear form associated with the quadratic form ##Q## (so ##Q(w) := B(w,w)##). The ideal could be expressed as

$$\mathcal{I} = \langle w\otimes w' + w'\otimes w - 2B(w,w')\rangle$$

And ##e_j\otimes e^i## would be equivalent to ##2B(e_j, e^i) - e^i\otimes e_j##, so

$$[e_j\otimes e^i] = [2B(e_j, e^i) - e^i\otimes e_j] \implies e_j\cdot_{Cl} e^i = 2B(e_j, e^i)\cdot_{Cl} 1_{Cl} - e^i\cdot_{Cl} e_j$$

which is the fundamental defining relation of the clifford algebra with ##w = e_j## and ##w' = e^i##. Would it correct to say that this implies that ##T = T_i^j e_j\otimes e^i## is mapped to ##T_i^j e_j\cdot_{Cl} e^i##?
 
Last edited:
jv07cs said:
Got it. Just one last quick question: If I consider ##B## to be the bilinear form associated with the quadratic form ##Q## (so ##Q(w) := B(w,w)##). The ideal could be expressed as

$$\mathcal{I} = \langle w\otimes w' + w'\otimes w - 2B(w,w')\rangle$$

I haven't checked. My book uses ##Q(w+w')=Q(w)+Q(w')+2B(w,w').## Unfortunately, it doesn't mention the definition as a quotient of a tensor algebra and I'm not certain that Wikipedia can be trusted.

If we assume, that we can trust it, then the ideal is generated by ##w\otimes w - Q(w)1.## Let's see.
\begin{align*}
(w+w') \otimes (w'+w) - Q(w+w')1&=w\otimes w' +w'\otimes w +Q(w)1+Q(w')1-Q(w+w')1\\&=w\otimes w' +w'\otimes w -2B(w,w')
\end{align*}
(Sorry for thinking loud.)
jv07cs said:
And ##e_j\otimes e^i## would be equivalent to ##2B(e_j, e^i) - e^i\otimes e_j##, so

$$[e_j\otimes e^i] = [2B(e_j, e^i) - e^i\otimes e_j] \implies e_j\cdot_{Cl} e^i = 2B(e_j, e^i)\cdot_{Cl} 1_{Cl} - e^i\cdot_{Cl} e_j$$

which is the fundamental defining relation of the clifford algebra with ##w = e_j## and ##w' = e^i##. Would it correct to say that this implies that ##T = T_i^j e_j\otimes e^i## is mapped to ##T_i^j e_j\cdot_{Cl} e^i##?
Not sure I can follow your calculations here, but I'd answer this question with a yes. That is what I would try first, the quotient map from the tensor algebra:
$$
V\otimes V^* \subseteq \mathcal{T}(W) \twoheadrightarrow Cl(W,Q)
$$
O'Meara has an interesting definition of a Clifford algebra which might be of interest here:

We call ##Cl(W,Q)## a Clifford algebra over the quadratic space ##(W,Q)## if it satisfies the following universal mapping property: given any algebra ##A## compatible with ##W,## i.e. ##W\subseteq A## and ##w^2=Q(w)\cdot 1_A##, there is exactly one algebra homomorphism ##\varphi\, : \,Cl(W,Q)\longrightarrow A## such that ##\varphi(w)=w## for all ##w\in W.##

Unfortunately, ##V\otimes V^* \not\subseteq W=V\oplus V^*## and you are trying to find a homomorphism from ##A=\operatorname{End}(V)## into ##Cl(W,Q)## instead of the other way around. This contrast to the universal property creates the arbitrariness I have spoken about. That's why I would take the detour by the tensor algebra ##\mathcal{T}(W)=\mathcal{T}(V\oplus V^*).## But there is more than one way to embed ##\operatorname{End}(V) \hookrightarrow \mathcal{T}(W).##
 

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