Master Darts in a Moving Elevator to Precision Aim

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the physics of throwing darts in a rising elevator moving at a constant speed. Participants explore whether the aim should be adjusted due to the elevator's motion, considering concepts of acceleration and gravity.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that since the elevator is moving at a constant speed, everything inside, including the dart, is also moving upward at the same velocity, implying no need to adjust aim.
  • Others argue that once the dart is released, it no longer experiences the upward force from the elevator and thus feels the downward force of gravity, which may affect its trajectory.
  • A participant notes that if the elevator is rising at a constant speed, there is no acceleration acting on the dart, which should behave like a dart thrown from the ground.
  • Some participants express confusion over the concepts of acceleration and gravity, with one suggesting that altitude might affect the gravitational force experienced.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the dart will start to accelerate downwards due to gravity once released, similar to a dart thrown at ground level, indicating no adjustment in aim is necessary.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing views on whether the aim should be adjusted when throwing a dart in a moving elevator. Participants express differing interpretations of the effects of constant speed and gravity.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference concepts of gravitational acceleration and the effects of altitude, indicating potential limitations in their understanding of these principles as they relate to the scenario presented.

JoshuaC
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You are playing darts in an elevator that is rising at a constant speed. Should you still aim at your target the way you would normally do, or should you aim higher, or lower? Explain.
 
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What do you think?
 
Remember that speed is "relative". (No "einsteinean relativity" required here, just "Gallilean relativity".)
 
I feel like it would be the same because everything in the elevator is moving up at the same upward velocity, but I am not sure.
 
Ah you are right. But in the period of time during which the dart is in the air, is the dart being pulled up like the rest of the elevator?
 
Vorde said:
Ah you are right. But in the period of time during which the dart is in the air, is the dart being pulled up like the rest of the elevator?

Note that the problem states the elevator is rising a constant speed, and hence is not accelerating.
 
dipole said:
Note that the problem states the elevator is rising a constant speed, and hence is not accelerating.

Doesn't what I'm saying still matter though? If it is rising at a constant speed it means there is an acceleration equal to 9.8 m/s^2 up. The dart, in midair, doesn't feel this acceleration.
 
Vorde said:
Doesn't what I'm saying still matter though? If it is rising at a constant speed it means there is an acceleration equal to 9.8 m/s^2 up. The dart, in midair, doesn't feel this acceleration.

Doh, yes you're definitely right. I thought you were implying there were pseudo-forces present in the elevator.
 
Not true. If it is rising at a constant velocity, there is 0 acceleration up or else it would not be rising at a constant velocity.
 
  • #10
Vorde said:
Doesn't what I'm saying still matter though? If it is rising at a constant speed it means there is an acceleration equal to 9.8 m/s^2 up. The dart, in midair, doesn't feel this acceleration.

No, there is no acceleration if the velocity is constant.
 
  • #11
Drakkith said:
No, there is no acceleration if the velocity is constant.

Of course, but the second the 'dart' leaves the thrower's hand, it's no longer being pushed up by the force of the rising elevator cart (mediated by your hand) and therefore it feels a downward force equal to g, right?
 
  • #12
Vorde said:
Of course, but the second the 'dart' leaves the thrower's hand, it's no longer being pushed up by the force of the rising elevator cart (mediated by your hand) and therefore it feels a downward force equal to g, right?

It already feels a force downward equal to g before the throw. (Just like a dart supported by someone on the ground) Once it is released it is rising at the same velocity as the rest of the elevator and will act identically to a dart thrown on the ground.
 
  • #13
JoshuaC said:
You are playing darts in an elevator that is rising at a constant speed. Should you still aim at your target the way you would normally do, or should you aim higher, or lower? Explain.

No, different acceleration is experienced due to altitude

but the probability could be the same
 
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  • #14
Drakkith said:
It already feels a force downward equal to g before the throw. (Just like a dart supported by someone on the ground) Once it is released it is rising at the same velocity as the rest of the elevator and will act identically to a dart thrown on the ground.


I see what I was thinking wrong. In my head I was thinking that the added velocity would make it seem like there was a greater acceleration, I can see why that is wrong.

Thank you, and to the OP: listen to Drakkith.
 
  • #15
Reogl said:
No, different acceleration is experienced due to altitude

but the probability could be the same

NO, :)

read the several previous comments, The speed is constant, there is NO acceleration :)

Dave
 
  • #16
davenn said:
NO, :)

read the several previous comments, The speed is constant, there is NO acceleration :)

Dave

Doing that on top of the high mountain is the same.. no acceleration but different g "acceleration due to gravity due to altitude" (should have use that phrase in my last post).
Thus, lighter "darts" to throw . Aiming is a matter of memorizing the motor complex for certain dart flight..try 3 throws first probably the 4th is more precise.
 
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  • #17
The dart would start to accelerate downwards due to gravity once it leaves your hand, but that happens when you are at ground level as well so you shouldn't have to adjust your aim.
 

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