Mastering Integrals: Tips and Hints for Solving Challenging Equations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the integral \(\int \frac{dv}{-g-kv\sqrt{v^{2}+u^{2}}}\), exploring whether it can be solved in terms of elementary functions. Participants share hints, proposed methods, and differing opinions on the solvability of the integral.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant requests hints for solving the integral, expressing uncertainty about its solvability.
  • Another participant, Daniel, asserts that the integral cannot be solved in terms of elementary functions, referencing a computer algebra system's inability to find a formula.
  • Ben humorously agrees with Daniel's assessment, suggesting that the error message from Mathematica indicates no formula exists.
  • Contradicting the previous claims, Daniel later states that the integral can be solved exactly in terms of elementary functions, presenting a substitution method involving hyperbolic functions.
  • Daniel provides a detailed transformation of the integral using the substitution \(x=p\sinh t\) and further manipulations to express the integral in terms of exponential functions.
  • Daniel concludes by stating that the remaining integrals can be computed exactly, suggesting a pathway to a solution.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express conflicting views on the solvability of the integral, with some asserting it cannot be solved in elementary terms while others propose methods that suggest it can be. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the overall solvability of the integral.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about the integral's form and the definitions of the variables involved. The mathematical steps presented by participants may depend on specific conditions that are not fully explored.

xAxis
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Can anybody give me a hint how to solve, if it is possible at all?
[tex]\int \frac{dv}{-g-kv\sqrt{v^{2}+u^{2}}}[/tex]
 
Last edited:
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I don't think it can be solved in terms of elementary functions.

Daniel.
 
dextercioby said:
I don't think it can be solved in terms of elementary functions.

Daniel.

I'll say, and I quote some computer when I say,

www.integrals.com said:
Mathematica could not find a formula for your integral. Most likely this means that no formula exists.

so good job xAxis, you've done quite :bugeye: , no rather :approve: , wait! certianly this is :smile: . Yes, that's it, I'm quite :smile: with this integral/error message combo.

--Ben
 
It can be solved exactly in terms of elementary functions.

Daniel.
 
[tex]I=\int \frac{dx}{-g-kx\sqrt{x^{2}+p^{2}}} =-\frac{1}{k}\int \frac{dx}{\frac{g}{k}+x\sqrt{x^{2}+p^{2}}}[/tex]

Now make the substitution

[tex]x=p\sinh t[/tex]

[tex]I= -\frac{p}{k}\int \frac{\cosh t \ dt}{\frac{g}{k}+p^{2}\sinh t\cosh t}= -\frac{p}{k}\int \frac{\cosh t \ dt}{\frac{g}{k}+\frac{p^{2}}{2}\sinh 2t}[/tex],
 
[tex]I= -\frac{p}{k}\int \frac{e^{t} +e^{-t}}{\frac{2g}{k}+\frac{p^{2}}{2}\left(e^{2t}-e^{-2t}\right)} \ dt = -\frac{2}{kp}\left(\int \frac{e^t}{\frac{4g}{p^{2}k}+e^{2t}-e^{-2t}} \ dt + \int \frac{e^{-t}}{\frac{4g}{p^{2}k}+e^{2t}-e^{-2t}} \ dt \right)[/tex],

[tex]I=-\frac{2}{kp}\left(\int \frac{e^{3t}}{e^{4t}+\frac{4g}{p^{2}k}e^{2t}-1} \ dt +\int \frac{e^{t}}{e^{4t}+\frac{4g}{p^{2}k}e^{2t}-1} \ dt \right)[/tex]

The 2 remaining integrals can be computed exactly.

Daniel.
 
Last edited:
For example:

See the attached file.

Daniel.
 

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