Mathematical Axioms of General Relativity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical foundations of General Relativity (GR), specifically focusing on the equations and principles that can be derived from it. Participants explore the necessary mathematical statements and actions that underpin GR, including the Einstein-Hilbert action and the coupling of matter to the metric.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant identifies Einstein's Field Equation and the Euler-Lagrange Equations as foundational to deriving GR, questioning if these alone can predict the system's history under specific initial conditions.
  • Another participant mentions the Einstein-Hilbert action, the matter action, and the assumption of minimal coupling of matter to the metric as essential components.
  • A subsequent post reiterates the importance of the Einstein-Hilbert action and seeks clarification on the mathematical statements of the other principles mentioned.
  • Further clarification is provided regarding the matter action, noting it is derived from special relativity but adapted for the metric in the Einstein-Hilbert action, emphasizing that minimal coupling excludes derivatives of the metric.
  • A participant references recent work by Hungarian mathematicians on axiomatizing relativity in first-order logic, suggesting it may be of interest for those inclined towards formal approaches.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants present multiple viewpoints regarding the foundational equations of GR, with no consensus on a definitive set of necessary equations or principles. The discussion remains unresolved as different aspects and interpretations are explored.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the completeness of the identified equations and principles, and there are references to specific mathematical formulations that may require further exploration or clarification.

learypost
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What are the equations from which all of GR can be derived? Obviously one of the equations is Einstein's Field Equation: G^{\alpha\beta}=8\pi T^{\alpha\beta}. I would also guess that you would need the Euler-Lagrange Equations: -\frac{d}{d\sigma}(\frac{\partial L}{\partial (dx^{\alpha}/d\sigma)}) + \frac{\partial L}{\partial x^{\alpha}} = 0. Are those all the necessary equations, ie, if given a set initial conditions could you correctly calculate the entire history of the system using only these two equations and a lot of math (assuming of course that gravity is the only force)?
 
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The Einstein-Hilbert action, the matter action, and the assumption that matter is minimally coupled to the metric.
 
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atyy said:
The Einstein-Hilbert action, the matter action, and the assumption that matter is minimally coupled to the metric.

So the mathematical statement of the Einstein-Hilbert action is : I= \int_{V} dV (-g)^{1/2}R (which as I understand is equivalent to the Einstein Field Equation), but what about the mathematical statements of the other two principles?
 
The matter action is the action of matter in special relativity, but with the Minkowski metric replaced by the metric in the Einstein-Hilbert action. Minimal coupling means that the matter action does not contain derivatives of the metric.

Take a look at Eq 2.33 in http://www.cpt.univ-mrs.fr/~rovelli/book.pdf.
 
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A group of Hungarian mathematicians has done quite a lot of work recently on axiomatizing relativity (special and general) in first order logic (see e.g. http://www.renyi.hu/~turms/phd.pdf). I'm not overly familiar with their work but it may be of interest, if you like things formal.
 

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