Maximizing a functional when the Euler-Lagrange equation's solution violates ICs

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the challenge of minimizing a functional involving a differential equation, specifically addressing the issue of initial conditions that cannot be satisfied by the general solution. Participants explore various approaches to the problem, including the implications of the Euler-Lagrange equation and potential methods to enforce initial conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks to minimize the functional ∫_0^∞ exp(-t)(t f'(t) - f(t))^2 dt subject to the conditions f(0)=1 and f'(x)>0 for all x.
  • Another participant suggests a general solution of the form c1 + c2t, but later retracts this, indicating uncertainty about the existence of another solution.
  • Some participants discuss the implications of the Euler-Lagrange equation being second order, suggesting that there may be multiple constants involved in the solution.
  • One participant notes that the limit of the general solution as t -> 0 leads to a contradiction with the initial condition f(0)=1.
  • A later reply provides a full solution involving the exponential integral function, but asserts that no solution can satisfy the initial condition.
  • Another participant proposes using a Lagrange multiplier to enforce the initial condition, suggesting a modified functional to minimize.
  • Concerns are raised about the potential discontinuity of the solution at the origin if the initial condition is enforced, with suggestions for alternative approaches to connect the initial value smoothly.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the differential equation does not have a solution satisfying the initial condition f(0)=1. However, there is no consensus on how to proceed with minimizing the functional given this limitation, with multiple competing views on potential methods and their implications.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the uniqueness of solutions and the implications of introducing discontinuities when enforcing initial conditions. The discussion highlights the complexity of the problem and the limitations of the proposed methods.

cfp
Messages
9
Reaction score
0
Hi,

I am trying to minimize:

[tex] \int_0^\infty{\exp(-t)(t\,f'(t)-f(t))^2\,dt}[/tex]

by choice of [tex]f[/tex], subject to [tex]f(0)=1[/tex] and [tex]f'(x)>0[/tex] for all [tex]x[/tex].

The (real) solution to the Euler-Lagrange differential equation is:

[tex] f(t)={C_1}t[/tex]

rather unsurprisingly. However, this violates [tex]f(0)=1[/tex].

If we constrain to solutions of the form:

[tex] f(t)=1+t^p[/tex]

then numerical optimisation puts [tex]p=1.2848\cdots[/tex] at which point the target is [tex]0.6327\cdots[/tex].

Is it possible to solve this problem without restricting to a particular solution form?

Thanks in advance,

Tom
 
Physics news on Phys.org
I found the solution to be c1 + c2t.
 
Oh wait, i was wrong. But there has to be another solution, since the euler lagrange equation will be second order
 
Do you have a complex solution as well? That solution will be accompanied by a complex constant so you cannot disregard it
 
Yeah there are two constants and the second one multiplies something complex (and messy). There's no reason you can't set the second constant to zero to the best of my knowledge.

In any case, whatever the values of those constants, it won't be the case that f(0)=1.
 
You cannot set it equal to zero. You must solve it from the initial values. Try it, youll see that it works

Regards
 
I get that the limit of the general solution as t -> 0 is signum(C2)*infinity where C2 is the constant on the messy complex part. Clearly you can't satisfy the initial conditions...
 
Please state the general solution you have. If you cannot satisfy the initial conditions with that, you will have to settle with some constrained function.
 
The full solution is:

[tex] C_1\,t+C_2\,\frac{Ei(1,-t)\,t^3+(2+t+t^2)\,\exp{t}}{t^2}[/tex]

where [tex]Ei(a,z)=z^{(a-1)} \,\Gamma{(1-a,z)}[/tex].
 
  • #10
No solution can satisfy the initial condition f(0) = 1. The differential equation you're trying to solve is

[tex]t^2 f''(t) - (t-2)(t f'(t) - f(t)) = 0,[/tex]

right? At t=0, this reduces to -2 f(0) = 0, and hence it can only be the case that a solution to the DE which includes the point t = 0 will necessarily have f(0) = 0.

Compare to the case of Bessel's Equation:

[tex]x^2 y'' + xy' + (x^2-n^2)y = 0[/tex]
has a regular singular point at x = 0. Note that for [itex]n \neq 0[/itex] all the solutions [itex]J_n(x)[/itex] have [itex]J_n(0) = 0[/itex], as at x = 0 the DE reduces to [itex]-n^2y(0) = 0[/itex]. At n = 0 we get 0 = 0 so [itex]J_0(x)[/itex] may take on any finite value at x = 0. The other independent solution of course diverges at the origin and may not be included in a solution which contains x = 0 as a valid point.
 
Last edited:
  • #11
Yeah I know the differential equation doesn't have a solution satisfying the initial condition.

The question I was asking in the first message is how you go about minimizing that functional given this.
 
  • #12
You could enforce your initial condition by adding a Lagrange multiplier, perhaps. You would then need to minimize the functional

[tex]S[f(t)] = \int_{0-}^\infty dt e^{-t} (tf'(t) - f(t))^2 - \lambda \left[f(0) - 1].[/tex]

Writing [itex]f(0) - 1 = \int_{0-}^\infty dt (f(t) - 1)\delta(t)[/itex] you can combine terms into one integral. Minimizing then gives you

[tex]e^{-t}\left[t^2 f''(t) + (2-t)(t f'(t) - f(t))\right] + \frac{\lambda}{2}\delta(t) = 0,[/tex]

which you can now solve. Note that I specified that your integration limit is actually slightly less than zero in order for the delta function to give you a non-zero value when integrated over that range. However, if t is restricted to being zero or greater this may be a shifty thing to do; you could get around it by having the delta function contribute to an integral at some other point, but the cost of doing so is that you would then have a differential equation for f at different points in time, which I believe would be much harder to solve.

Plus, I don't know if you could get a unique solution, as differentiating the functional with respect to lambda will only give you your desired initial condition.
 
  • #13
Nice idea to enforce the initial condition. I suspect however that would result in a discontinious solution at the origin, with -infinity slope, while a positive slope is required. The curve f=Ct will make the always positive integrand zero, so you might want to consider a D1 curve such in connecting the initial value to f = Ct in some small interval.

Regards.
 
  • #14
Yes, I'm also not sure it would give a satisfactory solution due to the discontinuity being a boundary point. If one sets

[tex]f(0)-1 = \int_{0}^\infty dt (f(t-\xi) - 1)\delta(t-\xi),[/tex]
to get around that problem then I don't even think one could combine the multiplier term with the original integral to get one differential equation - the two terms would have to vanish separately, which of course just reduces to the original attempt at the problem.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
4K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
2K