Maximizing Horizontal Range of a Projectile

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Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on maximizing the horizontal range of a projectile, exploring various methods and equations related to projectile motion. Participants engage with mathematical modeling, corrections to equations, and computational approaches using tools like Wolfram Alpha and Mathematica.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant points out a potential error in the equations presented, suggesting that the first term should be $$R~tan(\theta)$$ instead of $$v_0~R~tan(\theta)$$.
  • Another participant questions the definitions used in Method 2, proposing an alternative definition for $$\alpha$$ involving $$sin(\alpha) = \frac{h}{R'}$$.
  • A participant shares their experience with Wolfram Alpha, noting that it struggled with a specific equation related to the problem.
  • Another participant describes their use of Mathematica to solve kinematic equations, expressing confusion over the Wolfram Alpha code used by others.
  • There are suggestions that the issues with Wolfram Alpha are not due to the methods being incorrect but rather due to the way the equations are set up.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of trusting one's own method rather than adhering to conventional approaches.
  • Concerns are raised about the interpretation of vector equations and the necessity of setting a third component to zero for two-dimensional vectors.
  • Discussion includes clarification on how to properly use Wolfram Alpha for vector equations and the importance of ensuring the correct direction of vectors in projectile motion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correctness of the equations and methods discussed, with no consensus reached on the optimal approach or the validity of specific corrections. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best method for maximizing the horizontal range.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in their computational approaches, such as the need for approximate values in Mathematica and the challenges faced with Wolfram Alpha when dealing with vector equations.

neilparker62
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Nice article! Thanks for writing and sharing it!
 
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Thanks for posting. An error, perhaps, and a question, I extend. 1] In the 3rd equation right hand side, the first term should be $$R~tan(\theta)$$ and NOT $$v_0~R~tan(\theta) ~.$$ 2] In Method 2, should your definitions of ##\alpha## be $$sin(\alpha) = \frac{h}{R'} , where $$ $$R' = \sqrt{h^2+R^2}~,$$ and ##R## is defined as in your figure?
 
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Thanks for the correction - have updated as per your suggestion. Please let me know if there's anything still unclear.
 
1617639013134.png

I attempted solving this problem using @kuruman 's equation ##|\vec{v_i} \times \vec{v_f}|=Rg## in Method 3. Wolfram Alpha choked on it - readers might find it interesting to figure out why ?

1617639255818.png
 
I am a Mathematica person myself so I put the two kinematic equations in x and y and asked it to solve for the time of flight tf and the height h. It worked fine (see below). I don't understand WA code well enough to ascertain what you are doing with it.

Screen Shot 2021-04-05 at 12.03.19 PM.png
 
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Don't go conventional - just trust your own method! WA choked and it wasn't because your method or WA is at fault! The 'code' I put in was quite simple - it asked WA to solve the vector equation directly. What you have above is the solution provided on the kinematics webpage here and your vector technique shows it up as wrong!
 
neilparker62 said:
Don't go conventional - just trust your own method! WA choked and it wasn't because your method or WA is at fault! The 'code' I put in was quite simple - it asked WA to solve the vector equation directly. What you have above is the solution provided on the kinematics webpage here and your vector technique shows it up as wrong!
I don't see why the WA 'code' is a vector equation. I can see the two-dimensional vector on the left side but the right-hand side looks like a scalar and why is it negative? Also, I don't know about WA, but Mathematica does not accept 2-d vector cross products. For 2-d vectors, a third component must be set to zero.

I think the proper way to use the equation directly in WA is to ask it to solve the equation $$\sqrt{\left[v_0(\cos\theta, \sin\theta,0) \times (v_0\cos\theta,-\sqrt{v_{0}^2\sin^2\theta-2g\Delta h},0)\right]\cdot \left[v_0(\cos\theta, \sin\theta,0) \times (v_0\cos\theta,-\sqrt{v_{0}^2\sin^2\theta-2g\Delta h},0)\right]} =gR.$$The LHS is the square root of the dot product of the cross product with itself, i.e. the magnitude. It is set equal to ##gR##, a positive quantity.

I tried this with Mathematica. The numerical NSolve befuddled it. However, I got the expected result with cautionary messages when I used FindRoot and gave it an approximate value for ##\Delta h##.
 
WA is fine with 2D vector cross products. eg (ai + bj) x (ci + dj) would be entered as {a,b} cross {c,d}. The output is negative because i x -j is negative. On entry you need to make sure the ##v_f## vector is pointing downwards because the projectile is landing on the roof. It has passed (or should have passed) the maximum point of the trajectory. The reason WA chokes is not because it is wrong nor that your vector equation is wrong but because 15m is on the wrong side of the axis of symmetry - the projectile is still heading upward at that point. See following parametric graph of the projectile motion:

https://www.desmos.com/calculator/fwage30bpg
 

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