Maxwell aphorism about Probability

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interpretation of a quote by Maxwell regarding the logic of the world as expressed through the calculus of probabilities. Participants explore the implications of probability in both everyday decision-making and scientific contexts, particularly in relation to measure theory and quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the utility of formal probability in everyday decisions, suggesting that probability is often misunderstood outside scientific contexts.
  • Another participant connects Maxwell's aphorism to quantum mechanics, proposing that understanding measure theory and Lebesgue integrals may be essential to grasping the probabilistic nature of reality.
  • A different participant challenges the interpretation of measure theory, asserting that applying it to real-world events may lead to misinterpretations.
  • One contributor expresses uncertainty about the nature of randomness, distinguishing between truly random and pseudo-random events, and referencing the implications of quantum theory on causality and determinism.
  • Another participant notes that historical figures like Gibbs may not have been addressing modern probability theory, suggesting a potential disconnect in interpretations over time.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the meaning and implications of probability, with no clear consensus on its interpretation or application. Disagreements arise regarding the relevance of measure theory and the nature of randomness.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions hinge on the definitions and assumptions surrounding probability and measure theory, which may not be universally agreed upon. The historical context of probability theory's development is also noted as a potential limitation in understanding Maxwell's aphorism.

Aleoa
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In the first Volume of his lectures (cap. 6 first Paragraph), Feynman cites Maxwell :

"The true logic of this world is in the calculus of probabilities".


Considering the formal and rigorous definition of probability, very often misunderstood by not-scientists, what do you think is the deep meaning of this aphorism ?
Often, during the day, we take decisions based on the "probability" of the outcome, but if probability is formally referred to a repeatible event in unchanging conditions, is still useful to use this surrogate of probability in every-day decisions ?
 
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Measure theory teaches us that an impossible event and events with probability 0 are not the same. Allelujah! That is certainly intuitively clear! (not)

Maybe there is some hidden reference to quantum mechanics for which everything is probabilistic and so to grasp the true nature (or logic) of this world, one must understand measure theory and Lebesgue integrals etc etc.

...bah what do I know
 
nuuskur said:
Measure theory teaches us that an impossible event and events with probability 0 are not the same.

That is a misinterpretation of measure theory If you apply it to events in the real world.
 
I think we still do not understand what is the true logic of the world.

Obviously we use probability and statistics in both classical and modern physics. In quantum theory class we learn about probability waves and uncertainty. But I have never heard a satisfactory explanation of the basic issue of truly random vs pseudo-random. Of course if what we call "truly random" is actually pseudo-random, then it is deterministic, just like a sequence of numbers from a random number generator. If we apply Occam's razor to this discussion, we may be led to conclude that there is no observable basis for our belief in what we call "truly random."

In any event, I just happened to be organizing some of my old books today and I came across this passage from Born's Atomic Physics.

"As Neils Bohr first pointed out, the new views with regard to causality and determinism, which have arisen as a result of the quantum theory, are also of great significance for the biological sciences and for psychology. If even in inanimate nature the physicist comes up against absolute limits, at which strict causal connexion ceases and must be replaced by statistics, we should be prepared, in the realm of living things, and emphatically so in the processes connected with consciousness and will, to meet insurmountable barriers, where mechanistic explanation, the goal of the older natural philosophy, becomes entirely meaningless."
 
Aleoa said:

Considering the formal and rigorous definition of probability, very often misunderstood by not-scientists, what do you think is the deep meaning of this aphorism ?

According to the web, Gibbs died in 1903 and the modern rigorous development of probability was published by Kolmogorov in 1933. So Gibbs wasn't necessarily talking about the modern formulation of probability theory.
 
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