Maxwell's Equations in the Light of General Relativity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of Maxwell's Equations within the framework of General Relativity, particularly how these equations can be expressed in covariant form and their implications for detecting gravitational waves. Participants explore theoretical aspects, potential experimental methods, and the historical context of scientific ideas.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that in a local inertial frame, Maxwell's Equations can be used in their traditional form, despite changes in the spacetime metric due to nearby dense objects.
  • Another participant questions the practicality of using changes in electric and magnetic fields to detect gravitational waves, citing potential confounding influences such as airplanes or lightning storms.
  • A later reply proposes that changes in electromagnetic fields in response to spacetime curvature could have been significant in early cosmological processes, suggesting that these effects should be considered in theoretical and experimental contexts.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of proposing specific experimental setups to analyze sensitivity to gravitational waves compared to existing methods like LIGO and LISA.
  • Another participant reflects on the nature of scientific progress, noting that many ideas are initially flawed and that criticism is a part of the learning process.
  • There is mention of the LHC and its relation to gravity, with a request for clarification on its role in this context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the viability of using electromagnetic field changes to detect gravitational waves, with some supporting the idea and others questioning its practicality. There is no consensus on the effectiveness of this method compared to established techniques.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of the topic, including the need for careful consideration of boundary conditions and the influence of external factors on experimental results. There is also an awareness of the historical evolution of scientific ideas and the iterative nature of scientific inquiry.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying General Relativity, electromagnetism, gravitational wave detection, and the philosophy of science, particularly in the context of experimental methods and theoretical frameworks in physics.

Anamitra
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In the realm of General Relativity one must use Maxwell's Equations in their covariant form[the ordinary derivatives in the traditional form should be replaced by the covariant derivatives].

Now we select a point, A ,on the 4D spacetime surface and setup a "local inertial frame" on it by some suitable transformation.In the original frame we denote the axes by x1,x2,x3 and x0. In the transformed frame the corresponding axes are x1',x2',x3' and x0'.There is a small laboratory associated with the local inertial frame so that we may conduct experiments on electromagnetism. Interestingly in our local inertial frame we may use Maxwell's equations in their traditional form[ie we may use ordinary derivatives instead of covariant derivatives].

Suppose Maxwell's equations yield a solution of the form stated below[for Bx1']

Bx1'[x1,x2',x3',x0']= Ax1'^3 + B x2'^2+C x3'^2+D x0' +E --------------- (1)
[1)Consideration of one such result will be sufficient for our purpose
2)Bx1' denotes the x1'-component of the magnetic field ]

Now let a dense object approach the laboratory[or let the laboratory approach it].This will upset the space-time metric changing,changing the value of the coefficients[g(mu,nu)] at A.We will have to set up a new "local inertial frame" at A by some other suitable transformation.We denote the axis of this new local inertial frame by x1'',x2'',x3'' and x0''. In the new frame Maxwell's Equations will again have the same traditional form .
Consequently the form of the solution equations will not change though the individual entries may change in their values.
The new solution,corresponding to equation(1), will obviously be of the form:

B'x1''[x1'',x2'',x3'',x0'']= A' x1''^3 + B' x2''^2+C' x3''^2+D' x0'' +E' -------- (2)

[B'x1'' denotes the x1'' component of the magnetic field]
The constants in a differential equation are simply a reflection of the boundary conditions.
A,B,C,D and E reflect the original boundary conditions. A',B',C',D' and E' reflect the transformed boundary conditions. In most typical problems the boundary conditions at infinity do not change and so the constants should remain the same.But in our case we are conducting our experiment in a limited region of space and within a small interval of time. Better, we keep the constants different.

Equations (1) and (2) clearly bring out the fact that electric and magnetic fields should under effects of gravity.The manner in which the change should occur has also been indicated through the two equations.Only one equation[relating to the Bx1- component] from the solution set has been used to illustrate this point.

If the electric and magnetic fields change under the influence of gravity ,we may use this effect to detect gravitational waves. It may be easier to detect changes in the electric or magnetic fields than to make a direct observation of changes in spacetime curvature due to gravitational effects.

[We can always find a relationship between sets (x1',x2',x3'and x0') and (x1'',x2''x3'' and x0'') from the transformations (x1,x2,x3,x0)-->(x1',x2',x3'and x0') and (x1,x2,x3,x0)-->(x1',x2',x3'and x0')]
 
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If the electric and magnetic fields change under the influence of gravity ,we may use this effect to detect gravitational waves.

Everybody knows the first part...an example is gravitational lensing.
Yet your second part is not the technique being used to search for gravitational waves...at least not from what I have read...

maybe because, for example, an airplane passing overhead would also have a gravitatioal influence...or even a lightning storm...

As you likely know, here are the basic techniques:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_wave_detector

LISA and LIGO have been discussed on these forums...
 
Naty1 said:
Yet your second part is not the technique being used to search for gravitational waves...at least not from what I have read...

maybe because, for example, an airplane passing overhead would also have a gravitatioal influence...or even a lightning storm...

As you likely know, here are the basic techniques:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_wave_detector

LISA and LIGO have been discussed on these forums...

Well I can always suggest a new method.What's the harm?

Some other facts:
1)Changes in the electric and the magnetic fields in response to changes in space-time curvature[in a manner I have tried to show or by methods contrary to it] should have played an important role in the early cosmological processes. We must take care of them when in trying to trace back to those early events by theoretical or by experimental means.In fact they must have taken care of these considerations in the LHC experiments. The advisers/experts of the forum will be able to tell us a lot more on the points and we will definitely gain from such information.

2) The manner in which the electric and magnetic fields should change if some spacecraft happens to pass near some dense object could also be an interesting issue in relation to this problem.
 
I agree that there is no harm in suggesting alternate methods. What would be important would be a proposal of a specific experimental apparatus and an analysis of the sensitivity to gravitational waves compared to LIGO or LISA and an analysis of the sensitivity to confounding effects such as vibration, EMI, temperature, etc. I have no feeling one way or the other which method would wind up having more signal to noise in the end.
 
Well I can always suggest a new method.What's the harm?

that's how we all learn...and discovering the flaws in our own arguments...in fact most ideas scientists pursue are wrong, at least in their original form...so Ptolomy and those before him who thought stars were suspended on a heavenly globe, too, was wrong, Copernicus better, Galileo saw more witha telescope, then we discovered elliptical orbits,and only recently..was it just a 100 years ago, we realized OH my gosh, our galaxy is NOT the entire universe...there are OTHER galaxies...and OMG (again) Hubble found they are accelerting in expansion and Vera Rubin studied them and realzied "their orbital spin does not conform with existing theory"..and voila dark matter was hypothesized...and on and on...

The only group of people who NEVER make mistakes are politicians. Here in the forums, criticism of new ideas can be severe and unending...the trick is to tell which is legitimate and which is not.

By the way, what is the LHC doing with regards to gravity? Or does your comment refer to other work??
 

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