Maxwells theory of electro-magnetic radiation:

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around Maxwell's theory of electromagnetic radiation, examining its historical context, validity, and implications in modern physics. Participants explore the nature of electric and magnetic fields, the concept of particle spin, and the duality of photons as both particles and waves.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant argues that Maxwell's theory is anachronistic and misleading, suggesting it is based on faulty logic and observation, while another defends its elegance and utility, noting its survival through advancements like special relativity and quantum mechanics.
  • There is a contention regarding the existence of electric and magnetic fields, with one participant asserting that they do not exist independently and that only electromagnetic fields should be considered, while another participant acknowledges the historical separation of these concepts but emphasizes their unification in Maxwell's framework.
  • The notion of electron spin is challenged, with one participant questioning the analogy to planetary motion and suggesting that the understanding of spin should be based on relativistic wave equations, while another participant critiques the teaching of such analogies.
  • Participants discuss the dual nature of photons, with one expressing skepticism about the conventional view of photons as both particles and waves, suggesting that this duality may not be necessary or accurate.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus; instead, multiple competing views remain regarding the validity of Maxwell's theory, the nature of electric and magnetic fields, and the interpretation of photon behavior.

Contextual Notes

Some claims rely on specific interpretations of advanced electromagnetic theory and quantum mechanics, which may not be universally accepted or understood among all participants. There are unresolved questions regarding the definitions and implications of electric and magnetic fields in the context of modern physics.

  • #31
matter is bound condensed gravitation, space is unbound monopole gravitational wave. Time is the process
This is close to what Einstein states in GR.
 
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  • #32
The Faraday/Maxwell Equations are uniquely Classic Physics

McQueen said:
Maxwells theory of electromagnetic radiation has been around for the past two hundred odd years. Although it is probably one of the most elegant and aesthetic theories ever to be introduced in the study of Physics , today it is an anachronistic and misleading theory , based for the most part on faulty logic and observation. It accurately reflects the age in which it was conceived and is reminiscent of an eighteenth century steam engine more than anything else , Maxwell envisions electromagnetic radiation as huffing and puffing its way across the vast reaches of space. The whole conception of electric and magnetic fields alternatively exchanging energy and thereby sustaining themselves is at heart erroneous for the simple reason that there are no electric and magnetic fields per se , there are only electromagnetic fields. To speak of an electric field is wrong , there are no electric fields The field in and around a charged capacitor is frequently referred to as an electric field , in fact if a definition of an electric field exists it might be said to be represented by the field associated with a charged capacitor , yet this field is definitely not an electric field it is an electromagnetic field . How then can Maxwell’s theory possibly make sense or continue to possesses any validity. Even particle physicists speak blandly of results obtained under the influence of a strong magnetic field when what they actually mean is a strong electromagnetic field. The premise that electric and magnetic fields have an independent existence has fragmented the whole of physics to such an extent that it is difficult to envision ever replacing these concepts even if our whole understanding of physical phenomenon depends on such changes being made.


It is easy to agree with McQueen because I have come across, from my memory, an anecdote which shows that Maxwell's Equations of 140 years ago pertained uniquely to the Classic-Realm in the electormagnitic form of Alternating Current (which applies to radio transmissions and transformer applications etc.). Alternating Current has absolutely no place in the Quantum-Realm - the "loop" two-electron current in each Pauli orbital always travels rapidly and continues indefinitely as Direct Current, socalled "standing wave".

Anecdotally speaking; in 1937, car radios were designed to operate on power from a six-volt car battery, but not unlike the “plate – cathode” circuits in portable radios that contained a 90-volt battery as well as a 6-volt battery (to heat the cathodes), the 90-volt plate voltage in the car radio was furnished by a “vibrator” that reversed polarity sixty times a second in a pattern that was a pseudo-sine-wave – this was the fore-runner of true alternating current – a transformer and rectifier supplied 90-volt DC to the plate circuit. The upshot here is that with the purely classical Maxwellian treatment of electrodynamics, individual electrons do move in loops and do radiate but there is absolutely no concern for the intrinsic fact that an electron has dipolar “spin” that generates its own torque and magnetism.
It is notable that the dipolar "spin" of electrons occurs infrequently in Classical Mechanics (in van de Graff generators and capacitors) it is its orientation, whether as torque-up vs torque-down ala Feynman or as magnetic bar-magnet north pole vs South pole that satisfies the Pauli requirement in Quantum Mechanics.
It follows simply that all light is corpuscular because its photon length (and color) differs from the equal radio wave length that shows no color and is
obviously a continuous wave phenomenon. Ipse Dixit

Cheers, NEOclassic
 
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  • #33
Does not AC mean that, that current is associated with a sinusoidal waveform; furthermore AC was accepted in that moment Steinmetz presented his paper where he showed that those differential equations that defined AC could be converted to "normal" algebraic equations.
Our main problem from the beginning, IMHO, has been to interpret things from what I call the part(charge) point of view. The same concept of spin with its two inherent polarities(or directions) is not in fact, reflecting a sort of sinusoidal wave behavior?
As a matter of fact, that historical conflict between Steinmetz and Edison, a firmly advocate of DC, was solved with that paper mentioned that showed among other things that to manage complexity properly we must not just deny it, but take it to a minimum.
My point at this moment, is not AC or DC, but that both the Schrödinger wave equation and electromagnetism, as is studied in EE, are based in complex numbers, i.e., Euler relation, that permit to rationalize duality, duality that even in EE is presented in that complex concept of power that has been used so successfully in more than 140 years(?), and on which depends all our technology today.
Regards
EP
PD: The postmodernist debunking tendency in action?


NEOclassic said:
Alternating Current (which applies to radio transmissions and transformer applications etc.). Alternating Current has absolutely no place in the Quantum-Realm - the "loop" two-electron current in each Pauli orbital always travels rapidly and continues indefinitely as Direct Current, socalled "standing wave".


It is notable that the dipolar "spin" of electrons occurs infrequently in Classical Mechanics (in van de Graff generators and capacitors) it is its orientation, whether as torque-up vs torque-down ala Feynman or as magnetic bar-magnet north pole vs South pole that satisfies the Pauli requirement in Quantum Mechanics.
Ipse Dixit

Cheers, NEOclassic
 
  • #34
Yes, the spin concept has sometimes been explained in terms of classical mechanics(torque-up vs torque-down ala Feynman), but is it not an electromagnetic certitude?
Then it is said it was Dirac with its relativistic QM the one who finally explained it clearly.(as a matter of fact Maxwell equations remain invariant with the Lorentz transformation group)
I have always wondered though if the problem with its explanation had not lied in the difficulty we have to take for granted that duality we find in it, the same reluctancy we have to accept the wave nature of reality?
Normally it is easier and it may seem simpler to explain things starting with the part, i.e., with the simple as was recommended by Descartes.
By the same token when we came across with a certitude as that one of the Stern-Gerlach experiment, where we find ourselves with two different kinds of facts:
-on the one hand with the fact that the orbital angular momentum is right when calculated in a classical way, and
- on the other hand, it is not right for the angular intrinsic momentum, as its observed value is doubled: the electron does not behave as a classical particle.
The duality of the spin expressed in that dual and complementary behavior, where we find an up and down directions, as it were, a sinusoidal behavior, or an inherent polarity of the electron, where each one of those polarities seems to contribute to obtain that double result, which would not be the case if we considered at the background sort of charge dipoles, or just an electric charge?
When we have at the background a most appropriate symbolism based on a natural wave function as Euler relation, things of this sort definitively are seen almost in a most natural and intuitive way

Just some thoughts about the wave nature of reality
Regards
EP

NEOclassic said:
The upshot here is that with the purely classical Maxwellian treatment of electrodynamics, individual electrons do move in loops and do radiate but there is absolutely no concern for the intrinsic fact that an electron has dipolar “spin” that generates its own torque and magnetism.
It is notable that the dipolar "spin" of electrons occurs infrequently in Classical Mechanics (in van de Graff generators and capacitors) it is its orientation, whether as torque-up vs torque-down ala Feynman or as magnetic bar-magnet north pole vs South pole that satisfies the Pauli requirement in Quantum Mechanics... Ipse Dixit

Cheers, NEOclassic
 
  • #35
McQueen said:
You might like to check out the new theory of "electromagnetism " which I have introduced , which actually explains the propagation of light in terms of "Lines of force."
http://www.geocities.com/natureoflight/pg7.html

When I visit the above link and take a step back in the site to http://www.geocities.com/natureoflight , I find links to "Dilip. D. James" and someone in India,

For further information contact :
D.Ramakuri
"Arden Villa",
St. Ann's Rd.
Ootacamund 643 001
Nilgiris : S. India

Is this your author alias or ...
 
  • #36
Is this your author alias or ...
In a manner of speaking , yes.
 

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