McCain deceptions and confusion

1. Jul 31, 2008

Ivan Seeking

Staff Emeritus
Here is one that jumped off the page for me.

From a McCain commercial:

Generally, McCain has been trying to blame Obama for the price of oil because he does not support offshore drilling. However,

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07/14/bush.offshore/

Considering that until 2005, the price of crude hasn't been above $60 a barrel since 1985, http://zfacts.com/p/196.html It is clear that bans on ocean drilling have had no effect at all on the price of oil. Until a supply is price justified, it will not be tapped, regardless of access. So even if there were no bans on ocean drilling, only now would the oil companies be interested drilling. And even if they had begun drilling as soon as the price was 60$ in mid 2005, since it takes between five and ten years for new sites to fully come online, we would still be three to eight years away from seeing significant production levels.

2. Jul 31, 2008

Herodotus

Re: McCain deceptions

I wouldn't think supply development is that important right now. There are 98 countries that produce oil. 60 are in terminal decline in production and 64 are thought to have surpassed their production peak (geologically imposed one). Any new supplies probably couldn't be extracted quickly enough to offset prices that much anyways. Most analysts do not contest the fact that oil production will peak in the near future if it hasn't already.
Developing supplies wouldn't be useful unless we can increase efficiency too. That way, we can develop the infrastructure to transition to when the world runs out of cheap oil. It's not how much oil, it's how much cheap oil.

3. Jul 31, 2008

Staff: Mentor

Re: McCain deceptions

The title says it's a deception, but you did not claim, much less attempt to prove, that what McCain says is different than what he believes. All you really did was tell us why you think McCain's position is wrong.

What's more, though, is that there is a flaw in your logic:
You are assuming that the oil has to hit the street before it can affect the market price. Why?

Last edited: Jul 31, 2008
4. Jul 31, 2008

Herodotus

Re: McCain deceptions

Ok...what person wouldn't believe anything that McCain said had an aspect of fallacy in it? McCain supports offshore drilling and among his campaign promises is to develop domestic natural gas resources and promote oil exploration. Yeah, he's probably going to go through with that, but all of his energy reforms are probably not going to manifest themselves as he promised, considering the lies he's given during his campaign.

5. Jul 31, 2008

turbo

Re: McCain deceptions

There are already many millions of acres of continental shelf under lease to the oil companies, that go undeveloped. The call for more leases is aimed at transferring more public property to the oil companies. If the oil producers want more leases, they should make an honest effort to develop the ones that they hold already. Quite frankly, it's not in their best interests to do so. They are making record profits with the status quo. McCain surely knows this. Until a month ago, he opposed any expansion in offshore drilling - with this latest flip-flop he has shown that oil money is more important to him than the public interest.

6. Jul 31, 2008

seycyrus

Re: McCain deceptions

I thought we were talking about McCain, not Obama??!

**And yet another, illogical, pro-obama spin thread is created**

7. Jul 31, 2008

seycyrus

Re: McCain deceptions

Or perhaps he considers it a legitimate idea for the same reasons that all the other countries that do offshore drilling do...

8. Jul 31, 2008

WarPhalange

Re: McCain deceptions

Are you saying McCain has not flat-out lied during this campaign?

9. Jul 31, 2008

seycyrus

Re: McCain deceptions

Certainly not demonstrated in this thread.

Perhaps another thread didicated to bashing McCain is in order? Maybe we could start it another deceptive title?

10. Jul 31, 2008

drankin

Re: McCain deceptions

Someone help me out here, where's this McCain deception. I feel like I finished my box of cracker-jacks and didn't ge my prize.

11. Jul 31, 2008

WarPhalange

Re: McCain deceptions

Here you go:

Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2014
12. Jul 31, 2008

turbo

Re: McCain deceptions

McCain's ad blames Obama for high oil prices, though it's difficult to see how a junior Senator from Illinois has had time to manipulate the oil market. That's lie#1 #2 is that if McCain wants to blame anyone for high oil prices based on a ban on off-shore drilling, he only needs to look at himself in the mirror. A powerful senior Senator from Arizona who supported that ban for many years, only to reverse himself last month.

People may believe the McCain ads if they lack the knowledge of McCain's own positions and/or lack the logical capacity to see that McCain is trying to load up on Obama for holding a position that he held for years, and with his seniority in the Senate, he had a LOT more influence than Obama ever did.

13. Jul 31, 2008

Ivan Seeking

Staff Emeritus
Re: McCain deceptions

That's true, he could just be confused again, so I modified the title.

True, there wouldn't be enough oil to make a significant difference in price.

14. Jul 31, 2008

lisab

Staff Emeritus
Whether it's confusion or deception I don't know, but does it matter? I wouldn't say that it's preferable to have a confused president over a decitful one, or vice-versa.

I totally understand that a man in his 70s would be expected to have changed his position on some issues over the course of a lifetime. But many, many of these shifts have happened in the last few years (the Bush years).

Here's a web page that cites (with references) 72 issues on which McCain has been on both sides.

15. Jul 31, 2008

seycyrus

Re: McCain deceptions

Enough of the idiocy.

McCain voted against a certain VERSION of the GI bill. Do you think there has only been ONE version of the bill ever put forward?

This forum is supposed to be filled with people who have brains. I suggest we start using them. Maybe a good place to start would be to avoid offering an obviously biased site as *evidence* of anything.

16. Jul 31, 2008

seycyrus

Please provide a clip where McCain blames Obama, *personally* for high oil prices.

Nothing about policies that Obama supports, or has supported or might support. I want to see an clip of a personal accusation.

17. Jul 31, 2008

seycyrus

18. Jul 31, 2008

seycyrus

Yeah, that's quite a list there. A quick glance shows that some of the items don't even have a 1-2 statement but justthrow down a point.

Another quick glance shows that some of the links the site gives in an attempt to bolster credibility are actually just links to a site that restate the exact thing from another blogger. Ooh, that's hard hitting!

Why are people acting like depraved hungry animals, ready to gobble down and regurgitate *anything* that attacks McCain?

19. Jul 31, 2008

WarPhalange

20. Jul 31, 2008

edward

Obama does needs to address the issue rather than be blindsided by it. In the 2000 primaries when McCain and Bush were running close in South Carolina, Karl Rove released a picture of McCain's adopted dark skinned daughter.

It was published in a monthly southern journal, The Daughters Of The Confederacy.

McCain discovered that these tactics do work