If McCain-Palin are elected what is the reality of the chance of an AA president?

[GCT]

I placed this thread here rather then the politics forum because I wanted the answers of a more diverse group of people i.e. not just the politically savvy. I'm not intending it to become flagrant. Hopefully it won't , however , I imagine that some of the moderators believe this may be the case anyway which would subsequently warrant the relocation of this thread...

How many of you believe that if McCain and Palin are elected it would mean that African Americans have virtually zero chance of obtaining the presidency in the future? McCain is a second hand grade politician in the sense that he is approaching the average mortality age of the US and Palin is not even entry level in terms of qualifications ; Obama is fresh , he is good with Europe , and has displayed very decent qualifications for the job of Presidency.

I'm very curious about the pick here with Palin because McCain has set himself up for a black and white outcome. If they win I would imagine that this would disintegrate the hopes of the African Americans ; who would be a better African American candidate than Obama and who would be worse than McCain - Palin?

My guess is that the pick of Palin is in consideration of the next election - there may be a futuristic scheme here. My speculation is that she was picked to ( although I mentioned another in my post in the politics forum ) to candy coat a victory by an African American - superficialize the event so that it would not lead to historic changes. But note all of the people flocking to Palin anyways ... this is very worrisome. Even if Obama wins , the chances of another African American president in the future seems slim to me.

 

[tribdog]

the fact that Obama is a candidate is proof enough that there can be a black president. If McCain gets elected it will be because people want McCain to be president. I can't see anyone thinking that if the first black candidate from one of the two major parties doesn't win it means a black man never will. I'd think most people would think, getting closer. We'll get it next time.`

 

[GCT]

the fact that Obama is a candidate is proof enough that there can be a black president. If McCain gets elected it will be because people want McCain to be president.

...With all due respect your statements have no worth whatosever , there have been AA candidates just none of them are qualified as Obama and the hope of an AA president is at its greatest , if you don't understand about the importance of this issue then don't even comment.

 

[B. Elliott]

I sure hope no one will be voting for Obama simply due to him being half black. On the same note, I hope no one is voting for McCain on the grounds that he is white!

 

[tribdog]

.there have been AA candidates just none of them are qualified as Obama and the hope of an AA president is at its greatest.

and next time the hope of an AA president will be at its greatest. Every time we've had a black candidate the hope of a black president was at its greatest. You think that if Obama doesn't win everyone will just give up?

 

[tribdog]

as far as insinuating other people's opinions, isn't that exactly what you are doing in your original post? (the answer to that is: Yes.BTW)

 

[BobG]

That's the same logic many Clinton supporters had during the primaries (with many going on to form groups such as PUMA).

Using that same logic, if McCain-Palin don't win, does that mean a woman can never be Vice President (it would be the second time a woman VP lost)? Or does McCain-Palin winning prove that the highest a woman can aspire to is Vice President, supporting the white guy that's obviously a better fit to be President.

I think you're really stretching here.

 

[GCT]

and next time the hope of an AA president will be at its greatest. Every time we've had a black candidate the hope of a black president was at its greatest. You think that if Obama doesn't win everyone will just give up? That's something three year old kids do.

As I mentioned in my original post , what we have here is a very decently qualified AA candidate Obama who happens to have most of the AA votes and a second hand grade - in the sense that he's incredibly old - McCain with a not even entry level qualified Palin. Obama has been way above the standards of previous AA candidates and the other two represent the vice versa example. Are we going to ever have a AA as qualified and popular as Obama and are we ever going to have a nobody ex-beauty pagent without qualifications as candidates?

My point was that we seem to have a black and white situation here.

Edit : By " black and white " I'm not referencing race. i.e. This election is definitive.

 

[BobG]

Are we going to ever have a AA as qualified and popular as Obama ...?

David Paterson and Deval Patrick come to mind, right off the top of my head. Harold Ford could have been a possibility if not for losing in Tennessee's 2006 Senate election.

Heck, Paterson could fill another void. We've never had a blind President before.

Admittedly, there's more women in a decent position to run for President than blacks.

 

[TVP45]

I take your point, GCT, but think you are underestimating Black people. After being enslaved, robbed, lynched, and raped by Anglos for most of the past 400 years, they're not going to suddenly slap themselves on the head and say, "Damn, Whitey don't want to share!"

More to the point is whether there will ever again be a Democratic president. If Democrats can't elect this guy, who can they elect? Many Blacks are open to a third party.

 

[GCT]

David Paterson and Deval Patrick come to mind, right off the top of my head. Harold Ford could have been a possibility if not for losing in Tennessee's 2006 Senate election.

Heck, Paterson could fill another void. We've never had a blind President before.

Admittedly, there's more women in a decent position to run for President than blacks.

So you don't believe that this election is going to be definitive? AAs are flocking to the polls for this guy , a lot of the caucasians are headed the other way. So it does seem that race is an issue , btw not everyone votes with the issues in mind. AAs have been here ever since along with the British , except that a lot of the British have relocated to Britain since then so many of the caucasians in the US don't even have a British heritage here. A lot of the caucasian voters here haven't been here as long as AAs have ... thus many AA sense that something is amiss ...

I agree with you on the fact that there haven't been many qualified AAs. However it's also about the voice of the people.

 

[D H]

However it's also about the voice of the people.

The US Presidency is a place for affirmative action.

GCT, you are acting as if the only issue here is race. Race is inconsequential. There are many reasons people chose to vote against Obama / for McCain. You claim Obama is qualified and McCain is second rate, as if that were a given. Many, many people would claim that it is exactly the other way around. For starters, Obama is but a freshman senator.

Then there's political ideology. Some people like McCain's views a lot more than they like Oboma's, and even more dislike Obama's views a lot more than the dislike McCain's. Should these people throw these real concerns out the window just because of Obama's skin color?

 

[russ_watters]

...With all due respect your statements have no worth whatosever , there have been AA candidates just none of them are qualified as Obama and the hope of an AA president is at its greatest , if you don't understand about the importance of this issue then don't even comment.

You have a pretty opinionated stance for a thread-starter who claims he wants input. If you didn't want discussion, why did you start the thread?

The fact of the matter is that Obama has only been in the national spotlight for 8 years and has has only been holding a national office for 3.5 years. So nevermind that there are other african americans in public office (real ones, even - not just ones who chose that identity like Obama did), but there could be ones you never heard of who could be running for President in 8 or 12 years. How 'bout the governors of New York or Mass? How 'bout Condi Rice?

In any case, much of what you said in the OP is opinion stated as fact. Yes, Obama is a pretty good candidate - certainly stronger than Gore or Kerry. But so is McCain a good candidate. McCain has been in the national spotlight for a long time and has had a pretty consistently high approval rating. And while he may have lost the nomination bid to Bush 8 years ago, that doesn't mean he wasn't a strong candidate - quite the contrary, he was a stronger candidate than Bush for the general election because he is a moderate. Early in the race (before he started losing to Bush) he was, in fact, the strongest of all the candidates in the national polls.

And while Obama is good, he's not an exceptional candidate. He's got a lot of big negatives. Some of his major problems:
-He's black by choice, not birth (he's mixed-race and chose his one identy over the other). And he's displayed a heavy resentment/prejudice toward the other identity.
-He's very liberal. That means he can't possibly get a lot of crossover vote in the general election.
-He's very inexperienced.
-He is widely regarded - even by many people who support him - as being more talk than substance. His liberal use of the "present" vote is good evidence of indecisiveness and lack of conviction.

I think we're more likely to get a black elected President when we get one who doesn't run as an African American but instead runs as an American.

 

[Evo]

-He's black by choice, not birth (he's mixed-race and chose his one identy over the other).

Russ I have never disagreed with you because you always argue rationally and calmly, but I have to question you on this one. Take a moment and look at Obama, and tell me what people's reactions would be if he claimed to be white. I believe he has discussed this dilema with race identification before.

Do you really believe that Obama could run this Presidential campaign as a white man and people would agree he was white?

Most "blacks" in this country are part white, there are very few that aren't mixed. Should we reclassify all mixed blacks as white?

 

[wildman]

-He's black by choice, not birth (he's mixed-race and chose his one identy over the other). And he's displayed a heavy resentment/prejudice toward the other identity.

Actually, culturally he is white. He acts like a white. And in reality he had no choice since he was raised by his mother's family who are white. That is why a lot of blacks at first felt uncomfortable with him. He is not culturally black. And he obviously can't hate whites as you imply since then he would hate himself.

Now as far as running for office, I agree with Evo that he has no choice but to take a black identity since that is what everyone expects. However, he isn't black in spite of his color. He is white.

 

[tribdog]

black but lives like a white? lol. oh man, if I wasn't already in trouble for making fun of someone.

 

[Evo]

I work with a lot of people that are considered black because of their appearance, but they are no different from me (white). They are called black because of their appearance. Who's fault is that?

 

[TVP45]

I work with a lot of people that are considered black because of their appearance, but they are no different from me (white). They are called black because of their appearance. Who's fault is that?

Evo,

If I may butt in. In America at least you are the race others consider you to be. Several members of my family have been Black and White depending on where they lived and when. During the segregation days in the south, I had a friend who was darker than Senator Obama, but who managed to convince people she was White. She enrolled in a Whites only school and dated a White guy without any difficulty.

 

[Evo]

Evo,

If I may butt in. In America at least you are the race others consider you to be. Several members of my family have been Black and White depending on where they lived and when. During the segregation days in the south, I had a friend who was darker than Senator Obama, but who managed to convince people she was White. She enrolled in a Whites only school and dated a White guy without any difficulty.

I'm not going to say you aren't telling the truth, but that would be a rare exception and more likely the people in charge decided to bend the rules than believe that she was white. Obama isn't that fair skinned, and his hair and features definitely show his black heritage.

I have also worked with people from India that were darker than any black person I have seen, except for one Nigerian I met that was of pure black heritage. Having up to that time only met American blacks, it was rather shocking. Call me naive, but I had no idea, not even from tv, that the difference was that great.

It's my understanding that there is a social difference in India between the fairer and darker skinned.

 

[GCT]

Really , what's the problem with anyone taking up certain personalities and preferences? I'm guessing that having the predilections of a " white " person is perceived by some " black " people to be the key to living successfully especially when they believe that the other option of being " black " is to take up ganster antics and living in financial destitution. It's really nonsense to attribute lifestyles and personalities to someone who is " black " or someone who is " white " ... despite the fact that " blacks " are taking up this trend more than " whites ".

 

[tribdog]

You all realize that you are insinuating white=good/black=bad, don't you? Saying he is black but lives like a white is so insulting. I thought we had more intelligent, less prejudiced people here. To even argue over it is ridiculous, because once a racist always a racist. Even if its just a "closet racist"

 

[GCT]

You have a pretty opinionated stance for a thread-starter who claims he wants input. If you didn't want discussion, why did you start the thread?

Russ , his post had no substance, it wasn't a retort to the actual content of the original post.

 

[LowlyPion]

Obama is fresh , he is good with Europe , and has displayed very decent qualifications for the job of Presidency.

I'm very curious about the pick here with Palin because McCain has set himself up for a black and white outcome. If they win I would imagine that this would disintegrate the hopes of the African Americans ; who would be a better African American candidate than Obama and who would be worse than McCain - Palin? ... Even if Obama wins , the chances of another African American president in the future seems slim to me.

It's true that Obama is fresh and he is a crossover candidate to be sure. But then blacks are a minority and all things being equal it would seem to require a crossover candidate to succeed at the national level. Up until a few years ago you could as easily not predicted Obama's rise as you now think that another may not come along.

As individuals like Tiger Woods succeed in a crossover sense in the public mind, and gain extremely broad acceptance, I'm sure that the older prejudices that instilled such bitter divide will mellow the absolutes and broaden chances more and more on ability.

In the fullness of time I suspect that your concerns will seem odd to the not even so far out generations. After all not ever is a very long time.

 

[tribdog]

I'd like you all to go take this test. It takes about 10-15 minutes and they ask a lot of questions, it is anonymous.
https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/"
Click on the demonstration. and then take a demo test or something like that. Then pick The Ethnic test
I think some of you are bigots and don't even know it. I'll take it too.
I have a "moderate" preference for whites over blacks. I'm white so I can understand why.

 

[Evo]

You all realize that you are insinuating white=good/black=bad, don't you? Saying he is black but lives like a white is so insulting. I thought we had more intelligent, less prejudiced people here. To even argue over it is ridiculous, because once a racist always a racist. Even if its just a "closet racist"

Excuse me, but I am not racist, as a matter of fact, I am the one that got racism on this forum stopped, it only took me two years of my life.

Stating the fact that while I accept people as being the same as me and at the same time acknowledging that others view them as black means that I am not clueless as to the way these people are treated in society. If you can't grasp that trib, I'm surprised.

 

[tribdog]

Excuse me, but I am not racist, as a matter of fact, I am the one that got racism on this forum stopped, it only took me two years of my life.

Stating the fact that while I accept people as being the same as me and at the same time acknowledging that others view them as black means that I am not clueless as to the way these people are treated in society. If you can't grasp that trib, I'm surprised.

I wasn't talking about you. you snuck in while i was typing

 

[GCT]

This is troublesome , my test score on that Harvard link posted by Tribdog is

Your data suggest a moderate automatic preference for John McCain compared to Barack Obama.

I had specifically indicated that I preferred Obama over McCain 8 to 6 on all categories and the same with Biden over Palin.

My brain claims that McCain = good , Obama = bad? This is in direct contradiction to my desires and what I sense that this country needs. Irregardless I'm guessing that most of us have the capability to incorporate above the level of " good " and " bad ".

If such tests are in direct correlation with what our " subsconscious " mind favors to vote for then the African American population has a problem.

 

[LowlyPion]

I'd like you all to go take this test. It takes about 10-15 minutes and they ask a lot of questions, it is anonymous.
https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/"
Click on the demonstration. and then take a demo test or something like that. Then pick The Ethnic test
I think some of you are bigots and don't even know it. I'll take it too.
I have a "moderate" preference for whites over blacks. I'm white so I can understand why.

If you are unprepared to encounter interpretations that you might find objectionable, please do not proceed further.

I was shocked to discover that my analysis showed a strong automatic preference for Obama. I was feeling myself somewhat biased towards him, but I had no idea that the program would detect such bias, feeling as open-minded about the choice as I feel.

 

[TVP45]

I'm not going to say you aren't telling the truth, but that would be a rare exception and more likely the people in charge decided to bend the rules than believe that she was white.

Not at all. It was not a matter of rules, but rather law. It is difficult, I think, to see the nuances of the color line if you have no reference.

 

[russ_watters]

Russ I have never disagreed with you because you always argue rationally and calmly, but I have to question you on this one. Take a moment and look at Obama, and tell me what people's reactions would be if he claimed to be white. I believe he has discussed this dilema with race identification before.

I think you are missing my point, Evo. People can't choose how others label them(*caveat below) or how they look, but they can choose how they label themselves and what issues to make issues. Obama isn't "The Black Presidential Candidate" just because the media has labeled him as it, he's The Black Presidential Candidate because he's embraced the issue and made it an issue in the campaign.

(*Caveat)Tiger Woods was labeled by the media as a "Black golfer" (he's a mix too) and utterly rejected the idea - somewhat angrily even. IIRC, he specifically cited that the label ignored half of his heritage and he didn't like that. The media, for the most part, doesn't mention it anymore. They just talk about what a great golfer and businessman he is (he should run for office).

Colin Powell (he's more than half Jamacan, I think) doesn't talk about his race.

Obama has chosen his image. He's chosen to be one part of his heritage and reject the other. That annoys me. He's chosen to make his image a voting point in the election. That's wrong. Being The First Black President is something for history books to say - it isn't a basis for a political platform.

Do you really believe that Obama could run this Presidential campaign as a white man and people would agree he was white?

No, I think Obama should run as an American. And yes, I do think that it is possible. I think if the first time someone asked him about it in an interview, if he angrily responded that "I'm not an African American, I'm an American' (like Tiger Woods did), the issue would largely not be a part of the election.

Most "blacks" in this country are part white, there are very few that aren't mixed. Should we reclassify all mixed blacks as white?

No, you're missing my point, Evo. This isn't about what we should label people - it is about not labeling people. Why do we need to label him at all except in a single line in a history book?

This is 2008. In order to get past the concept of race, we need candidates who act like they are above the concept, not candidates who act like this is 1962. My mother is an administrator ad a nursery school. The kids at the school are largely oblivious to the concept of race. They don't know race is an important concept until they are told. Wouldn't this country be a better place if we never told them?

My mother is reading his book. I'll have to get it when she's done. Apparently, it is basically about how he came to choose his identity.

 

[BobG]

I'd like you all to go take this test. It takes about 10-15 minutes and they ask a lot of questions, it is anonymous.
https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/"
Click on the demonstration. and then take a demo test or something like that. Then pick The Ethnic test
I think some of you are bigots and don't even know it. I'll take it too.
I have a "moderate" preference for whites over blacks. I'm white so I can understand why.

I had a slight automatic preference for Obama.

I'd almost say running for President requires a person to be almost cultureless, except that neutral style is usually associated with whites since they're more prevalent in politics and business.

A white trash redneck might not fare much better than someone dragging along a rapper image (although some might say we're about to find out).

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

No, I think Obama should run as an American. And yes, I do think that it is possible. I think if the first time someone asked him about it in an interview, if he angrily responded that "I'm not an African American, I'm an American' (like Tiger Woods did), the issue would largely not be a part of the election. No, you're missing my point, Evo. This isn't about what we should label people - it is about not labeling people. Why do we need to label him at all except in a single line in a history book?

Its a nice ideal and, idealistically, I agree. Realistically though people will make it an issue no matter what he does. I doubt that there were a whole lot of black people out at the golf courses that had been waiting all their lives to see a negro play golf. I just don't see that as being something that is particularly important to many people. The presidency on the, other hand, is major. NO ONE would let Obama ignore the fact that he would be the first black president and in fact he would likely only incense a great number of his constituents by ignoring it seeing as how many are already leary of him because they believe he is too white washed. I just don't see any way around it. People label people. Its part of how our brains work so it will take a lot to undo the programing.

 

[Evo]

It would be similar to Hillary claiming to be running as just another candidate for President and refuse to be labled a woman.

We just aren't there as a society, in America. We label people, we classify people, we profile people.

Unfortunately, Obama's color is going to be a deciding factor in a lot of people's votes, both for and against.

 

[tribdog]

If it is about labels maybe I'll run as a black man. From now on I'm a black man running for president. NO! I'll be a black woman running for president.

 

[LowlyPion]

You know when I first read the title for this thread, my first thought was "Does McCain have a drinking problem, or is it Palin?"