Mechanical energy in situation 1 of the cart

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem involving mechanical energy in a roller coaster scenario, specifically focusing on the energy of a cart in a given situation while ignoring friction. Participants are analyzing the formula for mechanical energy, which includes kinetic and potential energy components.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to derive the mechanical energy using a formula but encounters discrepancies in the expected result. Some participants question the validity of removing mass from the equation and discuss the implications of unknown parameters. Others explore the possibility of calculating speed without mass, while also noting the challenges in determining kinetic energy without it.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, offering insights about the importance of units and the role of mass in energy calculations. There is recognition of the limitations in the problem's design, with some suggesting that the mass must be known to arrive at the expected energy value. Multiple interpretations of the problem's requirements are being explored.

Contextual Notes

There is a noted absence of mass information in the problem statement, which is causing confusion among participants. The discussion also references a subsequent question related to the speed of the cart in a different situation, indicating a broader context of the roller coaster problem set.

lamefeed
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Hi, I've been trying to figure out how to solve this problem for a few hours, but whatever I do it seems to give me the wrong answer.

Scale?geometry=300x300.jpg

Problem statement:
Fetch data from the roller coaster model. Ignore friction. What is the mechanical energy in cart in situation 1?

## E = E_k + E_p ##
Which gives me this formula
## E = \frac{1}{2}mv^2 + mgh ##
After this I remove the mass since it's not been given in the task, and I'm left with:
## E = \frac{1}{2}v^2+ gh ##
When I fill in the numbers I get this:
## E = \frac{1}{2}0.5^2 + 9.81*50 = 490 J ##But I'm supposed to get 49 J ?!

Can't get any help from my teacher until tomorrow so would be lovely if some of you could tell me where I took a wrong turn(If I made a mistake)!

Cheers,
Lamefeed
 
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It is advisable to work with units, then the mistake would have been obvious as your units do not match.
You cannot "remove" a mass. The energy will depend on the mass, and if you do not know the mass it will stay as unknown parameter in the result.

If you are supposed to get 49 J then a mass of about 0.1 kg has to be given somewhere.
 
mfb said:
It is advisable to work with units, then the mistake would have been obvious as your units do not match.
You cannot "remove" a mass. The energy will depend on the mass, and if you do not know the mass it will stay as unknown parameter in the result.

If you are supposed to get 49 J then a mass of about 0.1 kg has to be given somewhere.
The mass is unknown. Can I by any stretch of the imagination get the mass? when I only know the velocity and the height?
 
Last edited:
No. I am 0.5 m above the ground, moving with a velocity of 0 m/s relative to it. What is my mass?

Is there some previous problem discussing a roller coaster where a mass might have been given?
 
Hehe, I get your point it's impossible to predict the mass with the velocity and height (:

This was the first task based on roller coasters, the next question was asking about the speed of the cart in situation 2..
This is a badly designed problem i guess..
 
Could be.

You can calculate the speed without knowing the mass, but not the kinetic energy in Joules.
 
I tried to do so but I ended up with ~19 m/s when the speed should have been 24 m/s. It was done without knowing that the mass should have been 0.1kg
 
The mass cancels in the calculation of the speed.
24.3 m/s is correct, how did you get 19?
 
that might have been a mistake on my end.

forgot to multiply by 2 in every part when I "made" up the formula.

Pardon my English as it's not my first language.
 

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