Metric Tensor: Symmetry & Other Constraints

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical constraints on the metric tensor in the context of general relativity, focusing on its symmetry and other potential properties. Participants explore both theoretical implications and physical interpretations of these constraints.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that aside from symmetry, the metric tensor must satisfy conditions such as \( g_{00} > 0 \) and \( \det(g_{ik}) < 0 \) in a specific signature convention.
  • Others argue that it is possible to have a metric tensor that violates these conditions depending on the choice of coordinates, emphasizing that the physical requirement is a (1, 3) or (3, 1) signature.
  • A later reply questions the necessity of the determinant condition, suggesting that the determinant of a 3-submatrix is not constrained, while the full metric's determinant is.
  • Participants discuss examples where \( g_{00} < 0 \) occurs in rotating systems and mention various coordinate systems in curved spacetime that illustrate this point.
  • One participant raises the requirement for the metric to be continuous and twice differentiable for well-behaved curvature tensors.
  • Another participant insists on the distinction between metric and pseudometric, highlighting the importance of non-degeneracy and signature in defining the causality structure of spacetime.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the constraints of the metric tensor, particularly regarding the conditions on \( g_{00} \) and the determinant. There is no consensus on the necessity of these conditions, and multiple competing views remain throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on coordinate choices and the interpretation of the metric tensor's properties, which may vary based on the context of the discussion.

quickAndLucky
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TL;DR
What are the mathematical constraints on the metric?
Aside from being symmetric, are there any other mathematical constraints on the metric?
 
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Physical interpretation requires some other features like
g_{00}&gt;0, g=det(g_{ik})&lt;0
in (+---) 0123 convention.
 
Last edited:
anuttarasammyak said:
Physical interpretation requires some other features

Not the ones you state. It is perfectly possible to have a metric tensor that violates your conditions, if the coordinates are chosen appropriately.

Physically, the metric tensor must have a (1, 3) signature (or (3, 1) if we choose the opposite signature convention), but that in no way requires the condition you impose on the particular components.
 
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PeterDonis said:
but that in no way requires the condition you impose on the particular components.
That’s clearly true for the sign of ##g_{00}##, but for the statement about the determinant?
 
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Nugatory said:
for the statement about the determinant?

The determinant of a 3-submatrix is not constrained. The determinant of the full metric is, but I don't think that's the determinant that the poster in post #2 meant, since he used the indexes ##ik##, which usually means just the "spatial" indexes. He's welcome to correct me if I am wrong.
 
PeterDonis said:
He's welcome to correct me if I am wrong.
I intended i,k=0,1,2,3. Thanks.
 
anuttarasammyak said:
I intended i,k=0,1,2,3.

Ah, ok. Then your constraint on the determinant is correct, but your constraint on ##g_{00}##, as noted, is not.
 
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Now I know for an example in rotating system ##g_{00}<0## for region r > c / ##\omega## where no real body cannot stay still to represent coordinate (r,##\phi##). Thanks.
 
anuttarasammyak said:
Now I know for an example in rotating system ##g_{00}<0## for region r > c / ##\omega## where no real body cannot stay still to represent coordinate (r,##\phi##). Thanks.

There are plenty of examples. Just a few off the top of my head:

Null coordinates in Minkowski spacetime, and the various kinds of null charts in curved spacetime (for example, Eddington-Finkelstein, Kerr-Schild).

Painleve coordinates in Schwarzschild spacetime, at and inside the event horizon.

Static coordinates in de Sitter spacetime, at and outside the cosmological horizon.
 
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  • #10
Isn't there also a requirement that the metric be continuous and twice differentiable in order that the curvature tensors are well behaved?
 
  • #11
I think the correct statement is already made, i.e., the pseudometric (I insist on calling it NOT metric, because it's not positive definite, it's the fundamental form of PSEUDO-Riemannian manifold and not a Riemannian one, and that's very important physics wise since it allows for defining a causality structure of spacetime) must be non-degenerate and have the signature (1,3) (west-coast convention) or (3,1) (east-coast convention). That means the the components ##g_{\mu \nu}## form a real symmetric ##4 \times 4## matrix with 1 positive and 3 negative (or 3 positive and 1 negative) eigenvalue. Consequently the determinant ##\mathrm{det}(g_{\mu \nu})<0##. Since GR is covariant unders general diffeomorphisms of the coordinates at any point in spacetime you can choose "Galilean coordinates", such that in this one point ##(g_{\mu \nu})=\mathrm{diag}(1,-1,-1,-1)## (or ##(g_{\mu \nu})=\mathrm{diag}(-1,1,1,1)##).
 

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