Mg cos theta in context of incline plane

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the correct representation of the gravitational force component acting on a mass placed on an inclined plane, specifically whether this force should be expressed as mg cos Θ or -mg cos Θ. The scope includes conceptual clarification and mathematical reasoning regarding force components and sign conventions in physics.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the downward force should be represented as mg cos Θ or -mg cos Θ, suggesting that the negative sign may be necessary to indicate direction.
  • Another participant states that the choice of defining up or down as negative is flexible and does not affect the outcome, emphasizing that the normal force must act in the opposite direction to the gravitational force.
  • A third participant proposes that using a sign convention where into the plane is negative leads to the conclusion that the component of weight normal to the surface is -mg cos Θ, reinforcing the idea that the normal force is positive and directed out of the plane.
  • One participant expresses suspicion that the lecturer may have overlooked the negative sign in their explanation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of the negative sign in the force representation, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on the correct sign convention.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not reached a consensus on the appropriate sign convention, and the discussion highlights the dependence on chosen coordinate systems and definitions.

negation
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For a mass on an incline plane, is the downward force mg cos Θ or -mg cos Θ?
I'm inclined to state there should be a negative but from my lectures, the negative does not appear to be stipulated. I was wondering if it's was a mistake by the lecturer.

mg cos Θ + FN = 0
mg cos Θ = -FN

the downward force must be of equal magnitude to the normal force-but opposite direction.
This makes sense mathematically.

However, geometrically, it does make sense for the down ward force to be -mg cos Θ.

Could someone clarify?
 
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It depends! Are you defining up or down to be negative? You are free to do either. But the great thing about vectors is that it doesn't matter what coordinate frame you choose. And you have just found this out. Regardless of your choice of positive or negative you have found that the normal force must be in an opposite direction of the gravitational force. I am not sure if that clarify's completely but it should help.
 
Using a sign convention where into the plane is negative, the component of the weight normal to the surface would be -mg cosθ:
-mg cosθ + FN = 0
FN = mg cosθ (positive, thus out of the plane)
 
ModusPwnd said:
It depends! Are you defining up or down to be negative? You are free to do either. But the great thing about vectors is that it doesn't matter what coordinate frame you choose. And you have just found this out. Regardless of your choice of positive or negative you have found that the normal force must be in an opposite direction of the gravitational force. I am not sure if that clarify's completely but it should help.

Doc Al said:
Using a sign convention where into the plane is negative, the component of the weight normal to the surface would be -mg cosθ:
-mg cosθ + FN = 0
FN = mg cosθ (positive, thus out of the plane)

I am defining down to be negative.

I am suspecting the lecturer committed a blunder by forgetting the negative sign.
 

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