Minimum Nuclear Charge Threshold?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the minimum nuclear charge threshold for producing a specific detonation yield, particularly focusing on a yield of 0.7 kilotons (700 tonnes). Participants explore the feasibility of achieving such a yield with current nuclear technology, including comparisons to historical warheads and theoretical calculations related to blast effects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about the possibility of configuring a nuclear charge to achieve a 0.7 kt detonation, referencing the Davy Crockett warhead which had a minimum yield of 10 tons.
  • Calculations are presented regarding the energy yield of a 0.7 kt explosion, including conversions to joules and implications for blast radius and fatality estimates in urban settings.
  • One participant argues that a simple nuclear charge would suffice for a 0.7 kt yield, rather than a thermonuclear charge, which is typically used for larger yields.
  • There are discussions about the implications of using a nuclear weapon in a scenario where it might prevent a larger catastrophe, weighing the potential loss of life against the necessity of action.
  • Technical inquiries are made regarding the Taylor equation and its application to predict blast effects, including the relationship between blast radius and vaporized rock cavity radius.
  • Some participants express differing views on whether the vaporized rock cavity radius is equivalent to the blast radius, suggesting that additional factors such as material deformation and medium properties complicate this relationship.
  • Further calculations are shared regarding the thermonuclear threshold blast cavity radius for a 0.7 kt charge, including specific parameters related to granite and depth of detonation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of agreement and disagreement regarding the feasibility and implications of achieving a 0.7 kt nuclear detonation. While some calculations and historical references are acknowledged, there is no consensus on the minimum threshold yield or the appropriateness of using thermonuclear versus simple nuclear charges.

Contextual Notes

Discussions include various assumptions about yield calculations, the properties of materials involved, and the complexities of modeling nuclear detonations. Some mathematical steps and definitions remain unresolved, contributing to the ongoing debate.

Orion1
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Is is possible to shape and configure a nuclear charge to produce only a 700 tonne detonation? (0.7 kilotons, 0.7 kt)

What is the current minimum threshold yield for a nuclear charge detonation based upon current nuclear technology?
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Reference:
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/03/30/060330162648.wxde5ocl.html
 
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Orion1 said:
Is is possible to shape and configure a nuclear charge to produce only a 700 tonne detonation? (0.7 kilotons, 0.7 kt)

What is the current minimum threshold yield for a nuclear charge detonation based upon current nuclear technology?
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Reference:
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/03/30/060330162648.wxde5ocl.html

See the following for a description of the "Davey Crockett" which used the W54 warhead which had a minimum yield of only 10 tons.

http://www.brook.edu/FP/projects/nucwcost/davyc.HTM"
 
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Yield:
1 kiloton = 4.184*10^12 J
0.7 kt = 2.929*10^12 J

Typical minimum achievable yield ratio:
600 kt/t

Theoretical tactical thermonuclear device yield mass:

M = 0.7 kt*t/600 kt = 1.167*10^-3 t

M = 1.167*10^-3 t * 1000 kg/t = 1.167 kg

M = 1.167 kg

Yield Energy:
[tex]E = \text{2.929} \cdot \text{10}^{12} \; \text{J}[/tex]

Granite density:
[tex]\rho = 2600 \; \text{kg} \cdot \text{m}^{-3}[/tex]

Granite dimensionless constant:
[tex]c = {\frac {E{t}^{2}}{\rho\,{R}^{5}}}[/tex]

Yield:
[tex]E = {\frac {c\rho\,{R}^{5}}{{t}^{2}}}[/tex]

Blast radius:
[tex]R = \left( \frac{E t^2}{c \rho} \right)^{\frac{1}{5}[/tex]

Penetrator finite yield strength = target impact pressure:
[tex]Y_t = \frac{\rho_t v^2}{2}[/tex] ?

Fatal dose base surge area:
[tex]A = 3W^{0.6} \; \text{km}^2[/tex]
(W is the explosive energy yield in kilotons of TNT.)
For a typical third-world urban population density of 6000/km^2, estimates imply that a 1 kt weapon would kill 18,000 people.

Vaporized rock cavity radius:
[tex]R = 2W^{\frac{1}{3}} \; \text{km}[/tex]

Melted rock radius:
[tex]R = 4W^{\frac{1}{3}} \; \text{km}[/tex]
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A far more sensible strategy would be to ensure that whatever toxic material is already stored deep underground simply stays there. Once the entrances and exits to toxic storage facilities were sealed up using conventional tactics and the territory captured, the agents could be safely neutralized.
Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapon_yield
http://www.brook.edu/FP/projects/nucwcost/davyc.HTM
http://www.aip.org/pt/vol-56/iss-11/p32.html
 
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One would not do a thermonuclear charge for only 0.7 kt.

A simply nuclear charge (fissile) would suffice.

Traditional nuclear warheads were boosted with a fusion (thermonuclear) component to get more bang for the size.
 
Orion1 said:
Is is possible to shape and configure a nuclear charge to produce only a 700 tonne detonation? (0.7 kilotons, 0.7 kt)

What is the current minimum threshold yield for a nuclear charge detonation based upon current nuclear technology?
[/Color]
Reference:
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/03/30/060330162648.wxde5ocl.html

Orion1,

An explosion of 700 tonnes is within the minimum one can do with a nuke. As others
have pointed out the Davy Crocket was 10 tonnes.

The article is in error in saying that this is the first mushroom cloud at NTS since the
halt to atmospheric testing. LLNL has a facility at NTS called BEEF - Big Explosive
Experimental Facility. While the 700 tonnes is greater than other LLNL / LANL
experiments; the smaller yields also give mushroom clouds:

http://www.nv.doe.gov/library/factsheets/DOENV_711.pdf

http://www.lanl.gov/news/index.php?fuseaction=nb.story&story_id=3050&nb_date=2002-09-30

See "Area 4" at:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/facility/nts.htm

As the article states, if one is going to design weapons to attack deeply buried
targets; one has to be able to model the explosion. At some point, one has to tie
the computer simulation back to reality - and this is the way one does that. See:

http://www.llnl.gov/pao/WYOP/Shock_Physics.html

Dr. Gregory Greenman
Physicist
 
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Orion1 said:
For a typical third-world urban population density of 6000/km^2, estimates imply that a 1 kt weapon would kill 18,000 people.
Orion1,

That may be true - but if it is your only chance to destroy a nuke before it can be
delivered to a terrorist organization and ultimately to a large city where it could kill
hundereds of thousands or perhaps millions of people - then 18,000 may be the price
one has to pay.

I know it sounds harsh - but if you have a choice of killing 18,000 or allowing the
killing of 1 million; which do you chose? That's the type of brutal calculus one has
to face in a world with the potential for nuclear terrorism.

Dr. Gregory Greenman
Physicist
 
Taylor Equation...


Taylor equation:
[tex]c = {\frac {E{t}^{2}}{\rho \,{R}^{5}}}[/tex]

How is the time component of taylors equation solved without an actual detonation?

[tex]t = \sqrt{\frac{c \rho R^5}{E}}[/tex]

The reference lists 't' as the 'time since the blast'. Is this simply a time measurement of how long it takes the 'shock wave' to reach a point at a range from the detonation?

If shock waves from a nuclear detonation travel at acoustical velocity through the medium of travel, then the 'time since the blast' should be?:

[tex]t = \frac{R_r}{v_s}[/tex]
[tex]t[/tex] - 'time since the blast'
[tex]R_r[/tex] - range from detonation
[tex]v_s[/tex] - acoustical velocity through medium

Integrating acoustical velocity with taylor equation?:
[tex]t = \sqrt{\frac{c \rho R_b^5}{E}} = \frac{R_r}{v_s}[/tex]

Taylor equations?:
[tex]c = \left( \frac{R_r}{v_s} \right)^2 \frac{E}{\rho R_b^5}[/tex]

[tex]c = \frac{E}{\rho v_s^2} \left( \frac{R_r^2}{R_b^5} \right)[/tex]

Blast radius:
[tex]R = \left( \frac{E t^2}{c \rho} \right)^{\frac{1}{5}[/tex]

For a given kiloton detonation inside solid granite, would the 'vaporized rock cavity radius' be equivalent to the 'blast radius'?

blast radius = vaporized rock cavity radius:
[tex]R = \left( \frac{E t^2}{c \rho} \right)^{\frac{1}{5}} = 2W^{\frac{1}{3}} \; \text{km}[/tex]
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Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapon_yield
 
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For a given kiloton detonation inside solid granite, would the 'vaporized rock cavity radius' be equivalent to the 'blast radius'?
I believe the answer is no. There can be additional deformation in the solid material, that is the solid ground will be displaced but not vaprized.

The amount of material vaporized will be less than the amount displaced.

The blast radius will depend in the density and viscosity (friction) of the medium in which the blast occurs.

The situation becomes more complicated if there is considerable variation in mechanical/physical properties of the medium, e.g. a composite medium with high and lower density components. The blast wave (energy) takes the path of least resistance.
 
Morbius said:
An explosion of 700 tonnes is within the minimum one can do with a nuke.

What is the minimum nuclear charge threshold for a thermonuclear detonation?

.7 kt is the minimum thermonuclear charge threshold?

Teller blast cavity radius:
[tex]R = C \frac{Y^{\frac{1}{3}}}{(\rho h)^{\frac{1}{4}}}[/tex]

C = 57.70 - 60.48 Granite
Y = kt (kilotons)
rho = 2.7 Mg*m^-3 (Megagrams per cubic meter)
h = depth m (meters)

Thermonuclear threshold blast cavity radius: (.7 kt)
[tex]R = 60.48 \frac{.7^{\frac{1}{3}}}{(2.7 h)^{\frac{1}{4}}}[/tex]
[tex]R(h) = \frac{41.893}{h^{\frac{1}{4}}}[/tex]

[tex]\boxed{R(100) = 13.248 \; \text{m}}[/tex]

A .7 kt thermonuclear charge at a depth of 100 meters inside solid granite will produce a blast cavity radius equivalent to 13.248 meters.

kiloton blast cavity radius:
[tex]R(h) = \frac{60.48}{(2.7 \cdot h)^{\frac{1}{4}}} = \frac{47.181}{h^{\frac{1}{4}}}[/tex]

[tex]R(h) = \frac{47.181}{h^{\frac{1}{4}}}[/tex]
[tex]\boxed{R(100) = 19.125 \; \text{m}}}[/tex]

A 1 kt thermonuclear charge at a depth of 100 meters inside solid granite will produce a blast cavity radius equivalent to 19.125 meters.

1 kt in tuff at 122 m can produce a crater with a radius of 20.2 m

Penetrator finite yield strength = target impact pressure:
[tex]Y_t = \frac{\rho_t v^2}{2}[/tex]

Penetrator velocity threshold: (.7 kt)
[tex]v_t(Y_t) = \sqrt{\frac{2 Y_t}{\rho_t}} = \sqrt{\frac{2(.7 \cdot 4.184 \cdot 10^{12} \; \text{J})}{2700 \; \text{kg} \cdot \text{m}^{-3}}[/tex]
[tex]\boxed{v_t(.7 \; \text{kt}) = 46.577 \; \text{km} \cdot {s}^{-1}}[/tex]

Penetrator velocity threshold: (1 kt)
[tex]v_t(Y_t) = \sqrt{\frac{2 Y_t}{\rho_t}} = \sqrt{\frac{2(4.184 \cdot 10^{12} \; \text{J})}{2700 \; \text{kg} \cdot \text{m}^{-3}}[/tex]
[tex]\boxed{v_t(1 \; \text{kt}) = 55.671 \; \text{km} \cdot {s}^{-1}}[/tex]

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Reference:
http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Library/Effects/UndergroundEffects.html
 
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