Miscellaneous Geometrical Optics Questions

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around two problems in geometrical optics. The first problem involves a plano-convex lens that behaves as a concave mirror under different configurations, prompting a question about the refractive index of the lens. The second problem concerns a point source in a liquid and the rate of change of the visible area at the surface as the source moves upward.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the application of the lens maker's equation and the relationship between focal lengths and radii of curvature. There are attempts to derive the refractive index based on given focal lengths.
  • In the second problem, participants discuss the relationship between the radius of the illuminated area and the depth of the source, questioning how to incorporate the refractive index into their calculations.
  • Some participants express confusion regarding the conditions for total internal reflection and its relevance to the problem setup.

Discussion Status

The discussion includes various interpretations of the problems, with participants providing insights and alternative approaches. There is no explicit consensus on the correct application of principles, particularly regarding the second problem's conditions for total internal reflection.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the problems may involve assumptions about the behavior of light at interfaces and the nature of the lens system. There is a lack of clarity regarding the conditions under which total internal reflection occurs in the second problem.

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Homework Statement


I have two problems-

1) A plano-covex lens is silvered on its plane-side and then it acts like a concave mirror of focal length 20cm. When the convex side is silvered it acts like a concave mirror of 7 cm focal length. What is the refractive index of the lens?

2) A point source is placed in a tank filled with a liquid of refractive index √2, at its bottom. Now it starts moving in vertically upward direction with a velocity of 1m/s. The rate of change of visible area at the surface, when source is at 2m from the upper surface of liquid will be?


The Attempt at a Solution



1) 1/F = 2/fl
Given that F = 20cm
so fl = 40cm

Using the lens makers equation,
We get 1/40 = (μ-1)(1/R)

Now using the second condition,
1/F = -1/fl1
here F = 7cm
So fl1 = -7cm
R = -14cm

Substituting this in the first equation we get μ = 13/20 which is weird :|

2)
attachment.php?attachmentid=30920&d=1293553033.jpg



Let r and h be the radius of the circle illuminated and depth of the source resp.
The rate of change of area at any instant dA/dt = 2πrdr/dt
How do I find a relation between r and h when refractive index is given??

Thanks.
 

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Using the lens makers equation,
We get 1/40 = (μ-1)(1/R)

So R = 40(μ-1)

In the second case, focal length of the lens is f = R/(μ-1) and focal length of mirror is fm = R/2.
Hence 1/F = 2(μ-1)/R + 2/R = 2μ/R

1/7 = 2μ/40(μ-1)
Mow solve for μ.

In the second problem, when the total internal refraction take place, r/h = tanθ remains constant. Now 1/μ = sinθ . So θ = 45 degrees. So at any time r = h, and r^2 = h^2/(μ^2 - 1). Now take the derivative to find dr/dt.
 
rl.bhat said:
In the second case, focal length of the lens is f = R/(μ-1) and focal length of mirror is fm = R/2.
Hence 1/F = 2(μ-1)/R + 2/R = 2μ/R

There is no convex lens in the second case- the light enters from the plane side, refraction takes place, gets reflected from the silvered convex side, refracts at plane side and emerges out.

So the equation should be 1/F = 1/∞ + 1/fm + 1/∞
where fm = R/2

rl.bhat said:
In the second problem, when the total internal refraction take place, r/h = tanθ remains constant. Now 1/μ = sinθ . So θ = 45 degrees. So at any time r = h, and r^2 = h^2/(μ^2 - 1). Now take the derivative to find dr/dt.

I don't understand why will the total internal reflection take place. The question doesnot mention anything about it.
 
Abdul Quadeer said:
There is no convex lens in the second case- the light enters from the plane side, refraction takes place, gets reflected from the silvered convex side, refracts at plane side and emerges out.

So the equation should be 1/F = 1/∞ + 1/fm + 1/∞
where fm = R/2

When you silver the convex surface of the Plano convex lens, the system behave like the combination of Plano convex lens + concave mirror + Plano convex lens. The equation you have written represents the combination of rectangular glass slab + convex mirror + rectangular glass slab which is not true.


Abdul Quadeer said:
I don't understand why will the total internal reflection take place. The question doesnot mention anything about it.
The source inside the tank emits the light in all direction. But as you have shown in the diagram, all the light is not coming out of the surface of the tank because of the total internal reflection. The area of the circular patch of light depends on the depth of the source of light from the surface.
 
Thank you very much !
 

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