Modules of Finite Length - Cohn, page 61

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    Finite Length Modules
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of the length of modules as defined in P. M. Cohn's "Introduction to Ring Theory," specifically focusing on the implications of certain isomorphisms and theorems related to exact sequences of modules. Participants seek clarification on the relationships between kernel, image, and cokernel in the context of module theory, as well as the existence of composition series.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • Peter seeks understanding of how the isomorphisms involving kernel and image lead to specific equations regarding the lengths of modules.
  • Some participants propose that the relationship between the lengths of modules in a short exact sequence can be generalized, suggesting that $\ell(C) = \ell(B) - \ell(A)$ holds under certain conditions.
  • There is a discussion about the necessity of injectivity for certain mappings to preserve inclusions in the context of composition series.
  • Questions are raised about the assumptions regarding the existence of composition series for modules $A$ and $C$, with some arguing that it is not necessary for these series to exist for the discussion to proceed.
  • Clarification is sought on how the structure of the kernel and cokernel relates to the composition series and the implications of injectivity in these contexts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of composition series existing for modules $A$ and $C$. While some assert that the existence of these series is assumed, others challenge this assumption and discuss its implications. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the necessity of injectivity in preserving the structure of inclusions.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the assumption that the lengths of modules are finite, which is central to the discussion but not universally accepted among participants. Additionally, the implications of injectivity and the conditions under which certain properties hold are not fully resolved.

  • #31
Deveno said:
Recall I said that $N$ is 1-dimensional over $F$, that is:

$N = Fn$, for any non-zero $n \in N$.

It is clear, then, that $N$ is simple as an $F$-module, so a composition series (indeed, the ONLY composition series) is:

$\{0\} \subset N$

so that $\ell(N) = 1$ (1-dimensional subspaces of a vector space are simple $F$-modules).

Now $\text{dim}_F(M/N) = \text{dim}_F(M) - \text{dim}_F(N) = 3 - 1 = 2$.

Consider $v \not\in N$ ($v$ is in $M$) and the subspace $U = \langle v + N\rangle$ of $M/N$.

Can you show that:

$N/N \subset U \subset M/N$ is a composition series for $M/N$?

You may find it helpful to use that fact that $U = L/N$ for some submodule $N \subset L \subset M$, and that:

$(M/N)/(L/N) \cong M/L$.

In particular, they have the same dimension over $F$ (what has to be the dimension of $L$?).

The point of this, is to show that the length of a module is, in some sense, a generalization of "dimension" for vector spaces. Dimension is founded upon BASES, which, of course, may not exist for a given module. Even so, we may be able to determine a module's length, which gives us a way to "compare size".

Thanks Deveno ... just reading your post carefully and studying and reflecting on what you have written ...

Peter
 
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  • #32
Deveno said:
Recall I said that $N$ is 1-dimensional over $F$, that is:

$N = Fn$, for any non-zero $n \in N$.

It is clear, then, that $N$ is simple as an $F$-module, so a composition series (indeed, the ONLY composition series) is:

$\{0\} \subset N$

so that $\ell(N) = 1$ (1-dimensional subspaces of a vector space are simple $F$-modules).

Now $\text{dim}_F(M/N) = \text{dim}_F(M) - \text{dim}_F(N) = 3 - 1 = 2$.

Consider $v \not\in N$ ($v$ is in $M$) and the subspace $U = \langle v + N\rangle$ of $M/N$.

Can you show that:

$N/N \subset U \subset M/N$ is a composition series for $M/N$?

You may find it helpful to use that fact that $U = L/N$ for some submodule $N \subset L \subset M$, and that:

$(M/N)/(L/N) \cong M/L$.

In particular, they have the same dimension over $F$ (what has to be the dimension of $L$?).

The point of this, is to show that the length of a module is, in some sense, a generalization of "dimension" for vector spaces. Dimension is founded upon BASES, which, of course, may not exist for a given module. Even so, we may be able to determine a module's length, which gives us a way to "compare size".

Thanks for the help, Deveno ... but ... just a simple clarification ...

You write:

" ... ... Recall I said that $N$ is 1-dimensional over $F$, that is:

$N = Fn$, for any non-zero $n \in N$.

It is clear, then, that $N$ is simple as an $F$-module, so a composition series (indeed, the ONLY composition series) is:

$\{0\} \subset N$

so that $\ell(N) = 1$ (1-dimensional subspaces of a vector space are simple $F$-modules). ... ... "
Can you please explain exactly why $$N$$ is simple (i.e. why 1-dimensional subspaces of a vector space are simple $F$-modules)?
Peter
 
  • #33
Deveno said:
Recall I said that $N$ is 1-dimensional over $F$, that is:

$N = Fn$, for any non-zero $n \in N$.

It is clear, then, that $N$ is simple as an $F$-module, so a composition series (indeed, the ONLY composition series) is:

$\{0\} \subset N$

so that $\ell(N) = 1$ (1-dimensional subspaces of a vector space are simple $F$-modules).

Now $\text{dim}_F(M/N) = \text{dim}_F(M) - \text{dim}_F(N) = 3 - 1 = 2$.

Consider $v \not\in N$ ($v$ is in $M$) and the subspace $U = \langle v + N\rangle$ of $M/N$.

Can you show that:

$N/N \subset U \subset M/N$ is a composition series for $M/N$?

You may find it helpful to use that fact that $U = L/N$ for some submodule $N \subset L \subset M$, and that:

$(M/N)/(L/N) \cong M/L$.

In particular, they have the same dimension over $F$ (what has to be the dimension of $L$?).

The point of this, is to show that the length of a module is, in some sense, a generalization of "dimension" for vector spaces. Dimension is founded upon BASES, which, of course, may not exist for a given module. Even so, we may be able to determine a module's length, which gives us a way to "compare size".
Thanks Deveno ...

Now you write:

" ... ... Can you show that:

$N/N \subset U \subset M/N$ is a composition series for $M/N$? ... ... "I need some help with this exercise ... especially with the issue of showing that modules are simple (that is that they contain no proper non-trivial submodules) ... ...

Thoughts so far are as follows:

We are asked:

" ... ... Consider $v \not\in N$ ($v$ is in $M$) and the subspace $U = \langle v + N\rangle$ of $M/N$ ... ... "

so then we have that

$$ U = \langle v + N\rangle $$

$$= \{ f ( v + N ) \ | \ f \in F \} $$

$$= \{ f v + N ) \ | \ f \in F \} $$
... and then we are asked to show that:

$$\{ 0 \} = N/N \subset U \subset M/N $$

is a composition series for $$M/N$$So we need to show that the composition factors $$C_i / C_{i - 1}$$ are simple for

$$C_1 \subset C_2 \subset C_3 $$ $$= \{ 0 \} = N/N \subset U \subset M/N$$That is, we have to show that:

(1) $$(U)/(N/N) = U/\{ 0 \} = U$$ is simple

and

(2) $$(M/N) / U = (M/N)/ (L/N) $$
BUT ... for (2) above we have that

$$(M/N)/ (L/N) \cong M/L$$

so, essentially, we have to show $$M/L$$ is simple
But ... how to show $$U$$ and $$M/L$$ are simple ? ... ...

Can you please help?Peter

***EDIT***

You asked about the dimension of $$L$$ ... ...

Since $$N \subset L \subset M$$

we have that:

$$ \text{ dim } N \lt \text{ dim } L \lt \text{ dim } M$$

BUT ... $$\text{ dim } N = 1$$ and $$\text{ dim } M = 3$$

So ... $$\text{ dim } L = 2$$
 
Last edited:
  • #34
Let's answer the question:

1) Is a one-dimensional subspace $U$ of a vector space $V$ over a field $F$, a simple $F$-module?

Suppose we have, for the sake of argument:

$\{0_V\} \subset W \subseteq U$.

Since $U$ is one-dimensional, any basis for $U$ is of the form $\{u_1\}$.

This means, given any $u \in U$, there is some $\alpha \in F$ with $u = \alpha u_1$, and moreover, $\alpha$ is unique.

For $\{0_V\} \subset W$ (that is, for this containment to be PROPER), we must have $w \neq 0_V \in W$.

Since $W \subseteq U$, we have $w \in U$. So $w = \beta u_1$.

Since $u_1$ is a basis element, $u_1 \neq 0_V$. If $\beta = 0_F$, we have $w = 0$, contradicting our choice of $w$.

Since $F$ is a field, $\beta^{-1} \in F$, and we have, for any $u \in U$:

$u = \alpha u_1 = [\alpha(\beta^{-1}\beta)]u_1 = (\alpha\beta^{-1})(\beta u_1) = (\alpha\beta^{-1})w \in W$.

This shows that ANY non-zero subspace of $U$ is $U$ itself, that is: $U$ is simple, as it has no non-trivial proper subspaces.

Now if $M$ has dimension 3, and $L$ has dimension 2, $M/L$ has dimension 1. From the above, $M/L$ is simple. This means that:

$N/N \subset L/N \subset M/N$

is a composition series for $M/N$, since:

$(M/N)/(L/N) \cong M/L$ (if $M/L$ had a non-trivial proper subspace, so would $(M/N)/(L/N)$).
 
  • #35
Deveno said:
Let's answer the question:

1) Is a one-dimensional subspace $U$ of a vector space $V$ over a field $F$, a simple $F$-module?

Suppose we have, for the sake of argument:

$\{0_V\} \subset W \subseteq U$.

Since $U$ is one-dimensional, any basis for $U$ is of the form $\{u_1\}$.

This means, given any $u \in U$, there is some $\alpha \in F$ with $u = \alpha u_1$, and moreover, $\alpha$ is unique.

For $\{0_V\} \subset W$ (that is, for this containment to be PROPER), we must have $w \neq 0_V \in W$.

Since $W \subseteq U$, we have $w \in U$. So $w = \beta u_1$.

Since $u_1$ is a basis element, $u_1 \neq 0_V$. If $\beta = 0_F$, we have $w = 0$, contradicting our choice of $w$.

Since $F$ is a field, $\beta^{-1} \in F$, and we have, for any $u \in U$:

$u = \alpha u_1 = [\alpha(\beta^{-1}\beta)]u_1 = (\alpha\beta^{-1})(\beta u_1) = (\alpha\beta^{-1})w \in W$.

This shows that ANY non-zero subspace of $U$ is $U$ itself, that is: $U$ is simple, as it has no non-trivial proper subspaces.

Now if $M$ has dimension 3, and $L$ has dimension 2, $M/L$ has dimension 1. From the above, $M/L$ is simple. This means that:

$N/N \subset L/N \subset M/N$

is a composition series for $M/N$, since:

$(M/N)/(L/N) \cong M/L$ (if $M/L$ had a non-trivial proper subspace, so would $(M/N)/(L/N)$).
Thanks for your help Deveno ... just working carefully through your post now ...

Peter
 

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