Momentum and Energy problem (ball and incline collision)

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves a collision between a ball and an inclined plane, focusing on the conservation of momentum and energy. The ball's mass and initial speed are given, while the angle of the incline is specified. The objective is to determine the angle alpha after the collision.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to apply conservation laws but expresses concern about having more unknowns than equations. They consider using the center of mass reference frame but encounter challenges with momentum conservation in the vertical direction.
  • Some participants suggest eliminating one variable from the equations to simplify the problem, specifically focusing on the relationship between the velocities after the collision.
  • Others question whether additional equations or insights are needed to find the angle alpha, indicating a potential gap in the current approach.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, offering suggestions for eliminating variables and clarifying the relationships between them. There is a recognition of the complexity of the equations involved, and some guidance has been provided regarding how to manipulate the equations to find ratios of velocities.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the challenge of working with multiple unknowns and the need for additional relationships or equations to fully resolve the problem. The original poster has acknowledged corrections to their initial equations, indicating an evolving understanding of the problem setup.

Idoke
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Homework Statement


A ball, with mass [tex]m_{1}=6 kg[/tex] and speed [tex]v_{0}[/tex] (unknown) hits an inclined plane (as shown) of mass [tex]m_{2}=42 kg[/tex] at rest on a frictionless floor.
there is no friction between the ball and the plane.
the angle [tex]\beta[/tex] is 10 degrees.
Question: what is the value of [tex]\alpha[/tex]?2. Diagram

attachment.php?attachmentid=22598&stc=1&d=1261179976.png


The Attempt at a Solution


I used three things:
1. The conservation of momentum parallel to the X axis, because there are no forces on the system in that axis:
[tex]m_{1}v_{0}=m_{1}v_{1}cos\beta+m_{2}v_{2}[/tex]
where [tex]v_{1}[/tex] and [tex]v_{2}[/tex] are the velocities after the collision of the ball and plane, respectively.
EDITED: the equation was wrong, the inclined plane had no velocity before the collision.

2. The conservation of the ball's momentum on the axis parallel to the inclined plane (because no forces are acting on the ball in that axis) :
[tex]m_{1}v_{0}sin\alpha=m_{1}v_{1}sin\beta[/tex]

3. Conservation of kinetic energy:
[tex]1/2m_{1}v_{0}^{2}=1/2m_{1}v_{1}^{2}+1/2m_{2}v_{2}^{2}[/tex]Now I have a problem, I have 3 equations but 4 unknowns (v1, v2, alpha and v0). could someone shed some light on this?
I thought about doing this in the center of mass reference frame but i always get stuck with the fact that the momentum is not conserved in the Y direction.
help would be appreciated.
Thanks.
 

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You can eliminate v2 from the equations for the energy and horizontal momentum, and than solve for v1/v0.

ehild
 
You can eliminate v2 from the equations for the energy and horizontal momentum, and than solve for v1/v0.

But I still need to find alpha!
Do I not have the same predicament?
I feel like I'm missing another equation, or there might be a more elegant solution than this mess.
If I could find how much impulse (or change in momentum) the floor had on the ball and plane I think I could arrive at a solution.
What do you think?
 
from your second eqn V1/V0=sin (alpha)/sin (beta); the latter is known.
 
First of all, thanks for your time, both of you.
Now, I fixed the first equation, the inclined plane had no velocity before the collision.
I might be really dense, but I don't understand how to eliminate v2 from my equation or how that helps me solve the system.
If you could clarify, i'd be very grateful.
Ido.
 
I believe what ehild was suggesting is using eqns 1 & 3 to get the ratio v1/vo

in other words: use eqn 1 to express v2 in terms of masses, angles and v1

something like v2=m1/m2 * (1-cos(alpha)) v1. Then use your conservation of energy formula but substitute for v2 the eqn above. You should be able to get a v1/vo ratio from that. Then use eqn 2 as I mentioned.
 

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