Motion on a frictionless Surface

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of a body on a frictionless surface when subjected to an initial push, particularly in the context of Newton's laws of motion. Participants explore the implications of frictionless conditions, the effects of gravity, and the nature of surface imperfections on motion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that a body on a frictionless surface will continue in motion with constant velocity due to Newton's first law, provided no external forces act on it.
  • Others emphasize that while a frictionless surface allows for continuous motion, the presence of imperfections (like bumps) could introduce forces that affect the body's motion.
  • There are discussions about the distinction between friction and elasticity in collisions, with some suggesting that elastic collisions could lead to bouncing on uneven surfaces.
  • Some participants argue that encountering bumps would not result in energy loss in an ideal frictionless scenario, while others contend that imperfections could slow the body down.
  • A historical perspective is provided, noting that pre-Newtonian observations of motion were influenced by the effects of friction, contrasting with the behavior of celestial bodies.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the implications of Newton's first law in a frictionless context, but there is significant disagreement regarding the effects of surface imperfections and the nature of energy transfer during motion over uneven terrain.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about the ideal nature of a frictionless surface and the definitions of surface imperfections, which remain unresolved in the discussion.

shantgaurav1012
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"Suppose a body is kept on frictionless surface (considering gravity is acting on a body). If we give a little push to the

body, will it conitnue to be in state of motion with constant velocity or not?...If yes then why?? (Considering all

resistances to be zero ..)
 
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If the surface is perpendicular to the direction of gravity then yes, because of Newton's 1st law.
 
Yes, it will do so.
Newton's first law says that a body in motion WILL remain in motion forever unless you give it a small amount of force.
Now normally friction opposes motion and so bodies do NOT remain in motion, forever.On a friction less surface, however, there is nothing to stop or oppose the motion of the body.So, the body will go on and on and on.
 
shantgaurav1012 said:
.If yes then why?
For direction or speed (=velocity) to change, there has to be an external applied force. In your scenario, there is no applied force.
An historical note: People 'before Newton' observed that everything slows down and that was a pretty accurate observation for everything they saw on Earth. That was because of friction, of course. They looked up into the sky and saw the stars etc. moved around without slowing down so they assumed that there had to be an engine making it happen. Wrong. It's just that the friction is so low up there. Newton neatly managed to tie together the heavenly and earthly behaviour with his laws.
 
So what happens if the surface is frictionless and nominally level but imperfect - ie with lots of small humps and hollows ?
 
Nidum said:
So what happens if the surface is frictionless and nominally level but imperfect - ie with lots of small humps and hollows ?
If it comes to a hill, it will slow down (losing kinetic and gaining potential energy) and, on the way down the other side it will speed up, (losing the PE and gaining the KE it lost) The effect of gravity takes no net energy from the system if it regains the original level. If the track went right round the world, the same thing would apply.
 
Nidum said:
So what happens if the surface is frictionless and nominally level but imperfect - ie with lots of small humps and hollows ?
I think you just said frictionless and level but not frictionless or level.
 
Nidum said:
So what happens if the surface is frictionless and nominally level but imperfect - ie with lots of small humps and hollows ?

When it encounters a small bump, there would be a component of force opposite to the direction of motion of the object, tending to slow it down a little. It will eventually come to a halt if there are enough imperfections on the surface.
 
pixel said:
When it encounters a small bump, there would be a component of force opposite to the direction of motion of the object, tending to slow it down a little. It will eventually come to a halt if there are enough imperfections on the surface.
'Fraid not. In the absence of friction, there will be no energy lost. Merely deflecting the body will not take energy from the system. Read what I wrote above. We are discussing a non-intuitive ideal situation.
 
  • #10
We usually distinguish between friction (of objects in contact) and elasticity of collisions. If the collisions are perfectly elastic, then as you go over some bumpy terrain, the object will possibly start bouncing around, since there's no dissipation to keep it stuck to the ground. If the collisions aren't elastic, then you can lose some energy going over rough terrain even if the contact friction is negligible.
 
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  • #11
Khashishi said:
We usually distinguish between friction (of objects in contact) and elasticity of collisions. If the collisions are perfectly elastic, then as you go over some bumpy terrain, the object will possibly start bouncing around, since there's no dissipation to keep it stuck to the ground. If the collisions aren't elastic, then you can lose some energy going over rough terrain even if the contact friction is negligible.
Yes. It all depends on how real you want to get.
 
  • #12
sophiecentaur said:
'Fraid not. In the absence of friction, there will be no energy lost. Merely deflecting the body will not take energy from the system. Read what I wrote above. We are discussing a non-intuitive ideal situation.

I was thinking of a small bump with ~ vertical sides. But by definition if there is no friction then there are no such bumps.
 
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