MTW Gravitation: Exercise 5.1 | Beginner GR Stress-Energy Tensor Symmetry

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of the stress-energy tensor in general relativity, specifically addressing the symmetry of the tensor as presented in the book "Gravitation" by Misner, Thorne, and Wheeler. Participants explore the implications of equations 5.22 and 5.23, and the relationship between the components of the electromagnetic field tensor and the stress-energy tensor.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the symmetry of the stress-energy tensor, noting that while equation 5.23 is symmetric, the first term in equation 5.22 appears non-symmetric due to the properties of the electromagnetic field tensor.
  • Another participant argues that the first term is symmetric, providing a mathematical justification based on the definitions of the tensors involved.
  • Some participants discuss the implications of raising and lowering indices using the metric tensor, questioning whether it is necessary to "switch the indexes" and clarifying that the metric is symmetric.
  • There is a discussion about the calculation of specific components of the stress-energy tensor, with one participant detailing their approach and expressing confusion about discrepancies with the expected results.
  • A later reply provides a more detailed calculation, correcting a misunderstanding about the components of the electromagnetic field tensor and introducing the epsilon-delta identity as a useful mathematical tool.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a mix of agreement and disagreement. While some clarify the symmetry of the stress-energy tensor, others remain uncertain about specific calculations and interpretations of the equations. The discussion does not reach a consensus on all points, particularly regarding the calculations of the tensor components.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that certain assumptions about the indices and the properties of the tensors may not be explicitly stated, leading to confusion. The discussion also highlights the importance of understanding the definitions and conventions used in the context of general relativity.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for beginners in general relativity, particularly those studying the properties of the stress-energy tensor and its relationship to the electromagnetic field tensor. It may also benefit those interested in mathematical techniques used in tensor calculus.

Mike Karr
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TL;DR
It seems that the stress-energy tensor is both symmetric and non-symmetric.
I am a beginner in GR, working my through Gravitation by the above authors. If there is a better place to ask this question, please let me know.

I understand (from section 5.7) that the stress-energy tensor is symmetric, and from equation 5.23 (p. 141), it is explicitly symmetric. But evaluating equation 5.22 in a Lorentz coordinate frame, the last term is clearly symmetric, but the first term involves ##F^{\nu}_{\alpha}##, which is non-symmetric, at least according to equation 5.3 (p. 73). In particular, it is symmetric in the 0th column and row and anti-symmetric in the rest of the matrix. Multiplied by the anti-symmetric ##F^{\mu\alpha}## does not help the situation. So I can't get from 5.22 to 5.23.

I suppose my problem is understanding "in a Lorentz frame", but I thought all definitions of F and ##\nu## *are* in a Lorentz frame. Where am I going wrong?
 
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The first term is symmetric for the simple reason that ##S^{\mu \nu} \equiv F^{\mu \alpha} {F^{\nu}}_{\alpha} = {F^{\mu}}_{\alpha} F^{\nu \alpha} = F^{\nu \alpha}{F^{\mu}}_{\alpha} = S^{\nu \mu}##.
 
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Mike Karr said:
Summary:: It seems that the stress-energy tensor is both symmetric and non-symmetric.

Multiplied by the anti-symmetric $F^{\mu\alpha}$ does not help the situation.
As @ergospherical showed, yes it does. The index ##\alpha## is not a free index and you therefore cannot consider if the expression is symmetric under exchange ##\mu \leftrightarrow \alpha## because doing so does not make any sense.
 
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Orodruin said:
As @ergospherical showed, yes it does. The index ##\alpha## is not a free index and you therefore cannot consider if the expression is symmetric under exchange ##\mu \leftrightarrow \alpha## because doing so does not make any sense.
Of course. Sorry to bother you with something so trivial.
 
ergospherical said:
The first term is symmetric for the simple reason that ##S^{\mu \nu} \equiv F^{\mu \alpha} {F^{\nu}}_{\alpha} = {F^{\mu}}_{\alpha} F^{\nu \alpha}##
For the last term above I found ##F^{\mu \alpha} {F^{\nu}}_{\alpha} = {F^{\mu}}_{\gamma} \eta^{\alpha \gamma} {F^{\nu}}_{\alpha} = {F^{\mu}}_{\gamma} F^{\nu \gamma}## , then renaming the dummy index ##\gamma \leftrightarrow \alpha## we get
$$S^{\mu \nu} = {F^{\mu}}_{\alpha} F^{\nu \alpha} = F^{\nu \alpha}{F^{\mu}}_{\alpha} = S^{\nu \mu}$$
Btw, just from a formal point of view, is it required to switch the indexes of the metric tensor ##\eta^{\alpha \gamma}## in order to raise the ##\alpha## index of ##{F^{\nu}}_{\alpha}## turning it into ##F^{\nu \gamma}## ? Thank you.
 
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cianfa72 said:
Btw, just from a formal point of view, is it required to switch the indexes of the metric tensor ηαγ in order to raise the α index of Fνα turning it in Fνγ ?
That is kind of a moot point since the metric is symmetric by definition. Most people will do this without blinking.
 
Orodruin said:
That is kind of a moot point since the metric is symmetric by definition. Most people will do this without blinking.
yes of course, however from what you said the process of raising or lowering a tensor index by the metric tensor formally seems to require that.
 
cianfa72 said:
is it required to switch the indexes of the metric tensor ##\eta^{\alpha \gamma}##
What does "switch the indexes" even mean? The labels you put on the indexes are arbitrary.
 
PeterDonis said:
What does "switch the indexes" even mean? The labels you put on the indexes are arbitrary.
If you see for example here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raising_and_lowering_indices the process of raising or lowering a tensor index involves as dummy/summing index the second index of the metric tensor.

Said that, from a practical point of view since the metric tensor is symmetric, there is actually no business to switch the indexes as in the above #5.
 
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  • #10
It's irrelevant for tensors over a real vector space. You do have to worry about the order with spinorial tensors, whose indices are by convention lowered by contracting over the left index of ##\epsilon_{AB}## and vice versa, e.g. ##v_A = \epsilon_{BA} v^B = - \epsilon_{AB} v^B##. (One consequence of this is that swapping the heights of a pair of contracted indices introduces a minus sign, ##u_A v^A = - u^A v_A##).
 
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  • #12
As I said in #9 there is no problem at all ! As @ergospherical clarified for tensors over real vector spaces it is actually irrelevant.
 
  • #13
Mike Karr said:
Of course. Sorry to bother you with something so trivial.
Sorry, I got unconfused too quickly. I don't get the correct answer for ## T^{00} ##. Let's look at the two terms of equation 5.22. The last one is simple, I think:

## - \frac{1}{4} \eta^{\mu\nu} F_{\alpha\beta} F^{\alpha\beta}
= - \frac{1}{4} \eta^{\mu\nu} 2(E_x^2 + E_y^2 + E_z^2 + B_x^2 + B_y^2 + B_z^2)
= - \frac{1}{2} \eta^{\mu\nu} (E^2 + B^2) ##

Let's look at the ## \mu = 0 = \nu ## of the first term. The ## \alpha ##'s (second index) run across the rows of the matrices on pp. 73-74, so:

## F^{0\alpha} F^0_\alpha = (0, -E_x, -E_y, -E_z) \cdot (0, E_x, E_y, E_z)
= - E_x^2 - E_y^2 - E_z^2 = - E^2 ##

Since ## \eta^{00} = -1 ## (p. 53), the sum of these two terms is ## \frac{1}{2} ( - E^2 + B^2) ##, so dividing by ## 4 \pi ## gives:

## \frac{1}{8 \pi} ( - E^2 + B^2) ##

But the answer given by Ex. 5.1 is:

## \frac{1}{8 \pi} (E^2 + B^2) ##

What am I doing wrong?
 
  • #14
In a local Lorentz frame ##\eta = \mathrm{diag}(-1,\mathbf{I})## so\begin{align*}
4\pi T^{00} &= F^{0\alpha} {F^0}_{\alpha} + \frac{1}{4} F_{\alpha \beta} F^{\alpha \beta}
\end{align*}Recall that ##E_i = F_{0i}## and ##B_i = -(1/2) \epsilon_{ijk} F^{jk}##. That means ##F^{0\alpha} {F^0}_{\alpha} = E^i E_i = E^2## and also \begin{align*}
F_{\alpha \beta} F^{\alpha \beta} &= 2F_{0i} F^{0i} + F_{ij} F^{ij} \\
&= -2E_i E^i + (\epsilon_{ijk} B^k)(\epsilon_{ijl} B_l)
\end{align*}Use the epsilon-delta identity: ##\epsilon_{ijk} \epsilon_{ijl} = \delta_{jj} \delta_{kl} - \delta_{jl} \delta_{kj} = 2\delta_{kl}##. Then\begin{align*}
F_{\alpha \beta} F^{\alpha \beta} &= -2E^2 + 2B^k B_l \delta_{kl} = 2(-E^2 + B^2)
\end{align*}Overall: ##4\pi T^{00} = E^2 + \frac{1}{2}(-E^2 + B^2) = \frac{1}{2}(E^2 + B^2)##.
 
  • #15
ergospherical, thanks for your answer. What I was doing wrong was using the wrong components in ##F^{\alpha\beta} ##---I swapped the 0th row and 0th column. But your answer is much more clever, using formulas for ##E_i## and especially for ##B_i## that I would never have thought of. Also, I did not know of the epsilon-delta identity. Is it in MTW? Again, thanks for the help.
 
  • #16
Mike Karr said:
Also, I did not know of the epsilon-delta identity. Is it in MTW?
not sure, but the general formula is a fiddly determinant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levi-Civita_symbol#Product

the most useful version to memorise is a single contracted index ##\epsilon_{ijk} \epsilon_{ilm} = \delta_{jl} \delta_{km} - \delta_{jm} \delta_{kl}## (mnemonic: something like "product of same positions minus product of opposite positions")
 

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