My Storm Shelter: Summer Project w/ Dog Kennels & Lights

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berkeman said:
Alternately, you could add a sub-door in your main door that opens inward.
Actually, This thing cost quite a bit of money and since the door weighs over 100 lbs, I wouldn't want to mess up it's action by messing with it. It has gas springs; reducing force to open.
 
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bob012345 said:
How about a photo of the inside? Thanks.
I'm planing on taking inside pics tomorrow it it stops raining (tired of cleaning up tracked in mud from the construction site.)
 
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dlgoff said:
Actually, This thing cost quite a bit of money and since the door weighs over 100 lbs, I wouldn't want to mess up it's action by messing with it. It has gas springs; reducing force to open.
I think the explosive bolts idea would be far sexier. You could stage a demo test, invite the whole town, and become the Mr. Wizard hero to all the kids in town.

Seriously, unless the inside walls are concrete, an army surplus folding shovel could be your backup emergency escape. You have a mound. Just dig sideways.

What about your inventory? A non-toxic fire extinguisher would be high on my list because you have a confined space with only one exit.
 
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anorlunda said:
I think the explosive bolts idea would be far sexier.
:smile:
anorlunda said:
Seriously, unless the inside walls are concrete, an army surplus folding shovel could be your backup emergency escape. You have a mound. Just dig sideways.
I was just about to suggest a shovel as a backup. Great minds think alike. :smile:
 
anorlunda said:
Seriously, unless the inside walls are concrete, an army surplus folding shovel could be your backup emergency escape. You have a mound. Just dig sideways.
Yep. All concrete with lots of steel rebar.

anorlunda said:
What about your inventory? A non-toxic fire extinguisher would be high on my list because you have a confined space with only one exit
Yes. Mounted on stairs for quick access on exiting. Inside pics to come.
 
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How about a bullhorn in the shelter so they can hear you call for help a mile away...
 
bob012345 said:
How about a bullhorn in the shelter so they can hear you call for help a mile away...
https://i.pinimg.com/600x315/10/aa/90/10aa90c7fab8fafd82abfeefdde4ceec.jpg

1606338182557.png
 
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What kind of fire extinguisher? I ask because a confined space full of people from which they can not immediately escape is especially hazardous in case of fire. I had a similar dilemma living on a small boat at sea.

The most popular and inexpensive kind of fire extinguisher is the dry chemical type. That fine powder (I think silica) in high concentrations, is very bad for people to inhale. Halon, and CO2 extinguishers are also bad in a confined environment because they displace oxygen.

Wet foam extinguishers are the solution. The foam is not toxic, will not be inhaled, does not displace oxygen, not corrosive, and easy to clean up. Some of them are rated ABC.
 
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anorlunda said:
What kind of fire extinguisher? I ask because a confined space full of people from which they can not immediately escape is especially hazardous in case of fire. I had a similar dilemma living on a small boat at sea.

The most popular and inexpensive kind of fire extinguisher is the dry chemical type. That fine powder (I think silica) in high concentrations, is very bad for people to inhale. Halon, and CO2 extinguishers are also bad in a confined environment because they displace oxygen.

Wet foam extinguishers are the solution. The foam is not toxic, will not be inhaled, does not displace oxygen, not corrosive, and easy to clean up. Some of them are rated ABC.
Sure, have a good fire extinguisher but what are the odds of a serious fire in an all concrete buried storm shelter while waiting the few tens of minutes for a tornado to pass? I'd be more worried about sitting in concentrated Radon gas that accumulated over the year.
 
If there is the ability to cook in there, it is implied there is fuel. So the odds are higher than one would first think.
 
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bob012345 said:
I'd be more worried about sitting in concentrated Radon gas that accumulated over the year.
Also not an issue for tens of minutes. Radon-222 has a half life of 4 days, so it doesn't accumulate that much. It leads to Lead-210 which stays radioactive (half life 22 years), but that activity accumulates very slowly and it can be removed by removing the dust in the shelter.
 
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anorlunda said:
The most popular and inexpensive kind of fire extinguisher is the dry chemical type. That fine powder (I think silica) in high concentrations...
The 5-BC rated extinguisher we keep in the kitchen lists the contents as:

Sodium bicarbonate (that's baking soda)
Calcium carbonate (chalk; also used as an antacid for upset tummy)
Mica (sometimes used to add sparkle to nail polish or car paint)
nuisance dust
irritant

Hmm... "irritant." I guess they don't want you hanging around after use.

There is also a statement:

Avoid exposure to contents if wearing contact lenses; or have respiratory illnesses or skin allergies.

Although the agent contained in this extinguisher is not toxic, it may cause skin irritation. In case of contact with agent, flush from affected area with cool, clean water.

Cheers,
Tom
 
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anorlunda said:
Wet foam extinguishers are the solution.

Thanks I'll replace the inexpensive dry chemical one that in there now.
 
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I don't want to alarm people about ordinary household fire extinguishers. It is the small confined space that is a special use case.

The hazard is greatly increased with people in a small confined space. In the first 5 seconds after release, the entire chamber will be filled with a dense cloud of powder. So the quantity inhaled will be high. As soon as the dust settles (literally), the hazard is reduced.

In most home settings, the room volumes are higher and people can leave the room, so the quantity inhaled would be less.
https://servicefireequip.com/en/blog/38-how-dangerous-is-fire-extinguisher-powder
Fire Extinguisher Powder Inhalation
Fire extinguisher powder inhalation is one of the biggest dangers with fire extinguishers. It is very irritating to mucous membranes and may cause difficulties with breathing if inhaled in large enough quantities. [emphasis mine] Usually, in a small fire situation where you would be using one of the commonly seen extinguishers, there would not be enough dust to be breathed in. However, if it does happen, you should go to the hospital. The dust may coat your lungs on the inside, which can prevent oxygen from reaching the rest of the body.
 
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anorlunda said:
Wet foam extinguishers are the solution.
Thanks for this. I'll replace the one that's in there now.
anorlunda said:
I don't want to alarm people about ordinary household fire extinguishers
Better safe than sorry.

I took a mandatory training class given by the City's fire department when I worked at a pharmaceutical lab. They taught us the "proper" way to use dry chemical fire extinguishers. Funny, I learned just how messy they were but they did work well on our training kerosene fires. In the labs we had halon (Bromochlorodifluoromethane) extinguishers. In my storm shelter I have a two burner camping stove fueled by a 16 oz screw-on propane tank like this.
propane tank.png

So I'm not too worried.
 
anorlunda said:
I think the explosive bolts idea would be far sexier.
You got me curious; sounds like a good solution. Looks like you can get them to work any way you want. I learned something new today from this site.
 
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Don't get me wrong, I have several in my basement. Of course I walk through there every day and it is a lot bigger than a storm shelter. So I'd likely smell a leaky bottle. Not saying I wouldn't use it as @dlgoff would, but it would be a concern. Knowing someone personally who was involved in a propane explosion gives me second thoughts. It was a basement filled waist high with gas. No smell, leaky underground pipe and the gas made it into the basement. The construction foreman tells me a worker lit a match and it was described that blue flame floated around until the top layer of gas was solid flame. At that instant things happened REALLY fast. Next thing he knew he was in the hospital. Nothing left of the structure. Don't recall if he was found in the rubble or was blown out. So, again, I think twice about propane.
 
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There seems to be a difference of opinion on exactly what such a shelter is for. Some think one occupies it for less than an hour while the worst of the storm passes. Others think you might be living in for days because the house has been blown away, probably to land on some witch somewhere. Of course the different use cases have different requirements, capabilities and risks.
 
Vanadium 50 said:
There seems to be a difference of opinion on exactly what such a shelter is for. Some think one occupies it for less than an hour while the worst of the storm passes. Others think you might be living in for days because the house has been blown away, probably to land on some witch somewhere. Of course the different use cases have different requirements, capabilities and risks.
I've thought the same thing. But propane is very useful in a shelter maybe just for lighting for a few minutes.
 
Averagesupernova said:
Knowing someone personally who was involved in a propane explosion gives me second thoughts. It was a basement filled waist high with gas. No smell, leaky underground pipe and the gas made it into the basement.
Ouch! Glad that they survived.

So propane does not incorporate Mercaptan like natural gas distribution does? That seems problematic...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanethiol
 
I am not sure they survived. The foreman did because he was not in the basement. But I am pretty sure (not 100%) that both workers died. Foreman visited his worker at the burn unit, relayed this info to me. Propane loses its smell after filtering through the soil.
 
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Averagesupernova said:
Propane loses its smell after filtering through the soil.
Ah, interesting. I did not know that.
 
berkeman said:
Ah, interesting. I did not know that.
I don't ever want to find out personally. This is what I was told at the time. The construction company being involved in lawsuits over the deal implied that I could believe it when I was told.
 
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I think you guys are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Hell it's just a small 16 oz bottle of propane. Have you ever head of one exploding or even leaking?