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My Universal Game Theory

  1. Jan 26, 2004 #1
    I posted this a while back on the old MKaku forums. I saved it in NotePad and decided to post it again. I just changed a few things and fixed some typos.
    I was thinking about how the Universe came to be, with the atoms, and the subatomic particles, and all the other stuff. Then I thought, why was it created this way? Why couldn't it have been created another way? Then I thought of a few different ways it could have been created. The one that I thought most interesting was a polygon universe. There are no little building blocks that make things up, everything is made of a bunch of little planes connected to each other filled with some sort of substance. That made me think, since we're all ready creating our own universes like that in games and movies, maybe our universe is just another game, but a particle universe instead of a polygon universe.

    All of the physics of our universe are just programing. Everything was made this way by the developers of the game. They chose to use atoms and subatomic particles. They chose to use DNA to make life forms. They also chose to have many different planets with different races.

    Some of you may have heard of a type of games called Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games (MMORPG). These are games where a universe is created, and people play together over the internet, there can be thousands of players. They can choose a job, pratice and work on their skills, and acquire new items and money. I think that our universe is just one of these, but much more advanced.

    Most of us, if not all of us are non-playable characters (NPC). We each have our own artificial intelligence abilities. Some of us are programed to think a lot, some are programed to be athletic, and some are programed to be criminal. That would mean that our personalities are predetermined, and we just use that to do things. We also have memory files, that we can recall when needed. When we die, our memory files are erased, and our personality configuration is reborn.

    There are also some people in the universe that are not NPCs, they are the actual people playing the game. When a person purchases the game, they are born on a random planet somewhere in the universe. They become whatever race is dominent on that planet. in our case, it would be human. On Mars... nobody would probably spawn becuase there is no life we know of. On some other planet, the dominent life form may be an amoeba. Then that player will be born as an amoeba. That would obviously suck, so when a user dies, he will spawn at a different planet as a different race.

    Since our AI skills are very advanced, the players are not allowed to discuss anything from the real world in here. If they do, they'd be locked up in an asylum for the rest of their life on this planet. I'm not saying that psychiatrists and asylum workers are admins for the game, but I think that the admins of the game can force psychiatrists what to think and do, so they do lock this user up and make sure nobody believes him or her to keep us from becoming "Self-Aware".

    Everybody probably knows what a hacker is. They find holes in software and use the holes to their advantage. I think that some of the people who play this game may be hackers. This would explain why certain people have the ability to do things that defy the physics of the game. We have heard of these people. People who possess psychic abilities or telekinetic abilities. They are most likely hackers. People who are much much stronger than the average person. People who can be shot and still survive. These would be the hackers.

    In our planet's past, I believe to have spotted a few people who were actually users. I do not wish to offend anybody's religious beliefes or anything, I'm merely trying to point out a few certain people that I believe to be players.

    The first person that I think of as a player would be Jesus Christ. I believe that he was born on this planet randomly. After he was born he wrote hacks on himself, being able to cure the sick, and perform other miracles. Because of this, NPCs began to follow him. In the end, people believe that he will come back. He probably will. He may eventually hack into the game to respawn on this planet again.

    The other person I believe to be a player would be Adolf Hitler. When Hitler was born on this planet, he talked to other players outside the game. He found a few who were on Earth and in Germany. He started a clan, or a team of people who play the game. He was the leader of this Nazi clan. He decided that he wanted to take over the Earth and make it for his clan only. Obviously he failed and the Nazi clan is mostly gone. We are quite lucky that Hitler, or none of his clanmates were hackers, or we could have lost the war.

    Well... that's my theory. Any thoughts? Opinions? Attacks?
  2. jcsd
  3. Jan 29, 2004 #2
    It's an interesting fantasy world view, but sounds like the start of another crackpot religion. If life is all a game then the main goal would be to have fun.
  4. Jan 29, 2004 #3


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    But what if you are just an icon in a game being played by -- THEM?
  5. Jan 30, 2004 #4
    sounds kinda like Buddhism to me. Except i don't think many Buddhists would consider Hitler to have been enlightened :wink:
  6. Feb 1, 2004 #5
    1.) How is this really much different than "The Matrix"?
    2.) What exactly is the object of the game?
    3.) Once someone wins, does it all go away?
    4.) What is the "reality" that the "players" live in?
    5.) Do the non-players exist in any reality?
  7. Feb 2, 2004 #6
    It is different from the Matrix in that it is not just a virtual reality place for us so we do not know the truth. It is just a game meant for entertaining the players.

    Well, the object in most MMORPGs is just to become the best player. There is no end to the game. Players start out, purchase some weapons and gear, kill things, level up, purchase more...

    Well, since MMORPGs do not have an end, it never would. The only time they end is when they cancel it and shut the servers down.

    I do not know. It would probably be something similiar to ours, since we tend to design our games off of our reality. But since we may be in a game and do not know it, they may be in a game and do not know it. It could be a game within a game within a game within...

    The non-playable-characters would only exist within the game. The characters in our games can not walk out and interact outside of the computer or console. It would be really neat if they took one of us NPCs, and downloaded them into a robot or cyborg, and showed one of us what their reality is.
  8. Feb 2, 2004 #7
    I've been there...I think all it really takes for anyone to be a more active player is to keep believing in themselves, because when you don't believe in yourself others tell you who you are supposed to be and what you are supposed to act like and this makes life easy in a way and harder in other ways and in time people forget that they can think and do whatever they want- in my game everyone would have free will.
  9. Feb 3, 2004 #8
    This is an interesting way to look at physics, unfortunately, this universe seems too precise to have been calculated and if it is not infitely precise, just precise enough for us not to notice, your theory is still false as this cannot be verified. Basically, it is impossible to prove we are living in the matrix, unless of course scientists are wrong and the universe is more predictable than we think, leading to the suggestion that elemtns of your theory apply to reality.

    Otherwise and in reality your theory is lunacy.
  10. Feb 6, 2004 #9
    What are the best MMORPG games?

    It's a very interesting theory Tekdude. If we are within a game within a game..etc, it still leaves us with the question of what/who is creating the first game.

    You've made me want to check out one of these MMORPG games though - do you know much about them? If so I'd be interested to know which you think is the best as I'd like to have a go. Feel free to PM me with any info :smile:
  11. Feb 6, 2004 #10
    Argh... the matrix sux.

    This discussion is pointless and seems to be entirely based around that lame trilogy which is also pointless and boring. Apart from the special effects.

    This idea is not verifiable and besides, we are in a sort of matrix, except the calculations happen to occur in the quantum world and we are not essentially calculations within a computer. Is there anthing usfeul about this discussion.
  12. Feb 6, 2004 #11


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    I wouldn't say its based on the matrix, I've suggested similar long before the original matrix came out. By far I'm not the smartest person out here so I'm sure someone else is quite capable of coming up with this idea. Its fun to speculate about, but it seems thats all you can do when you get to thinking about the nature of reality.

    This for instance, is the problem with almost any belief:

    See, the same thing could be said about a classic religion. God created the universe. But who created god. Did a god create the universe that god lives in? (all rhetorical of course)

    If we are a game in a game in a game, whats the point in trying to figure it out? Will we ever reach the end?

    Nah, I say just live life, and if it is a game, perhaps we'll fiure it out.
  13. Feb 7, 2004 #12
    How about this for a logical disproof? Obviously certain assumptions have been made, though it could disprove this idea.

    Assume that we are in a game within a game within infinite games.

    Assume that humanity prospers and grows into an intergalactic empire and decides to turn the entire universe into a supercomputer which supports a matrix.

    Assuming that we are living in matrix it can also be assumed that the universe is composed of finite proportions.

    The universe in the matrix that we produce must also be composed of finite proportions.

    In this case the computer in this universe must be more complex than the matrix universe we created.

    Hence if we are the end of an infinite line of games within a game our complexity should be 0. Therefore one of the assumptions is wrong.

    Though of course my original assumption is more justifiable.

    "There is no evidence to suggest that we are living in a matrix, therefore if scientific method is assumed to be correct, we are not living in a matrix."

    Though maybe, we are living in a matrix than has programmed the universe to make it seem as thoguh scientific method is reasonable in order to prevent us from finding out that we live in a matrix.


  14. Sep 8, 2006 #13
    "The universe in the matrix that we produce must also be composed of finite proportions.

    In this case the computer in this universe must be more complex than the matrix universe we created."

    How is this so? The whole point of machine learning is that computers can create a more powerful computer over time.

    I like to think of reality as less of a game, and more as a computation of some sort :) An experiment in distributed, evolutionary algorithms.
  15. Sep 8, 2006 #14
    The modern penchant for thinking that we live in some kind of "matrix" is a natural evolution of the human inability/unwillingness to accept (a) the idea that there is no teleological reason for our existence and (b) the idea of evolution by natural selection. Since humans could think they have asked "why are we here, where did we come from?" - the early answers to this question led to the creation of gods and religions; more recently intelligent design has supplanted the idea of god (especially in large parts of north america); and now it seems that matrix-like brain-in-a-vat ideas are becoming popular.


    Why can't people simply accept that we are not here for any particular reason/purpose, and we exist simply because of the outworking of natural chemical and physical processes? What's so hard to understand about that?

    Best Regards
  16. Sep 8, 2006 #15
    Or maybe it's all down to familiarity with computers. People
    used to speak about the Book of Nature. Then they decided everything was clockwork, when that was the most advanced technology known....
  17. Sep 9, 2006 #16
    I'd say it's because of our evolving understanding of the self. I like to examine my genetic self, and my memetic self seperately. When you start thinking about how much of your self is composed of ideas, you start thinking about other ways those ideas could be represented, computed with, etc.
  18. Sep 11, 2006 #17
    How about if the game calls for the NPC's to eventually seek and discover the game as the evident knowledge around such dimension (in which the players know) eventually evolves their consciousness to become more aware.

    As they become more knowledgeable and aware, it will enable them to pierce through the shield that differentiated between the npc's and the players. Then they will turn to be instrumental in judgment the conduct of the players pertaining to the game, and the corresponding rewards or otherwise relative to how the players dealt with the npc's, which would declare the winner of the game.

    That would be fair enough.
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2006
  19. Sep 19, 2006 #18
    So our technology inspires us in trying to describe/understand the ultimate reality. A 100 years from now we would have a lot better understanding of quantum computers and the quantum world.

    Would our theories, then, simply be that everything is interconnected as stated by eastern philosophers centuries ago?
  20. Sep 19, 2006 #19


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    What "interconnected" means now to people studying the rich worlds of condensed matter physics and network theory is so much more than the generic, vague "interconnection" of the old mystics that there is no comparison. I would expect that in the future it would be even more so. Did Newton's universal theory of gravitation confirm astrological "influence from the stars"?
  21. Sep 19, 2006 #20
    yes and no. There still is no good explanation (imho) of how Mach's principle fits with theories of gravitation and inertia and angular momentum, but it does seem that all mass/energy is interconnected via gravity.

    Best Regards
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