Need help with two simple proofs

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The discussion revolves around two mathematical proofs. The first proof attempts to demonstrate that for all real numbers x greater than 1 and y greater than 0, y^x is greater than x, but it ultimately provides a counterexample showing this is not universally true. The second statement regarding integers a, b, and c suggests that if a divides bc, then either a divides b or a divides c, and participants are unsure how to approach this proof. The conversation highlights the confusion between providing a proof and a counterexample, emphasizing the need for clarity in mathematical arguments. Overall, the thread seeks to refine understanding of proof techniques and the correct application of definitions.
eku_girl83
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Here's my problem:
Provide either a proof or a counterexample for each of these statements.
a) For all real numbers x and y, if x is greater than 1 and y is greater than zero, then y^x is greater than x.

My proof:
Suppose x is some real number greater than 1 and y is some real number greater than 0.
Suppose x=2 and y=1/4.
Then y^x=(1/4)^2=1/16 and 1/16=y^x is less than x=2.
Now suppose that x=3 and y=2.
Then y^x=2^3=8 and 8=y^x is greater than x=3.
Hence if x is greater than 1 and 0 less than y less than or equal to 1, then y^x is less than or equal to x.
But if x is greater than 1 and y is greater than 1, then y^x is greater than x.
Therefore the statement "if x is greater than 1 and y is greater than 0, then y^x is greater than x" is not true for all real numbers x and y.

Is this a good proof? How can I improve it or make it clearer?

b) For integers a, b, c, if a divides bc, then either a divides b or a divides c.

I'm not really sure where to go with this one, so hints would be welcome.
I do know that if a divides bc, then bc=ak, where k is a natural number.
Similarly, a divides b means that b=aj and a divides c means that c=ai, where j and i are also natural numbers.
Which proof techinique do I use here? contradiction, contraposition, or direct proof?

Thanks ahead of time,
eku_girl83
 
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your first proof looks solid ..
what u have done is simply give a counter example
u could have chosen some simpler values say,
x=2 and y=0.1 so (0.1)^2 = 0.01 < 2
QED

your second is again a counterexample one,
a = 12 b = 4 and c=6
QED

-- AI
 
1) A proof is something that must be true for all x and y satisfying those constraints.
So ypu've not proven the statement. You have found a counter example. I do'nt understand why after finding a counter example you do something else too.
Your deduction

"But if x is greater than 1 and y is greater than 1, then y^x is greater than x."

based upon those two examples is also not true.

2) do you think it's true? hint that is sometimes used as a definition for what it means fo a to be a prime.
 
if u ask me
a proof is either the one that validates the statement or invalidates it

so i still accept that as a proof.

Usuall such questions are tagged with,
" prove or disprove blah blah blah..."

-- AI
 
It asked for a proof that the statement is true or a counter example.
thus we may take the posters use of the word "proof" to indicate proving it true, when they post a counter example instead. (Ie prove it false), but the usage of the word is poor, and confusing, especially given that after giving a counter example, they then "prove" using one example a false statement.
 
I was reading documentation about the soundness and completeness of logic formal systems. Consider the following $$\vdash_S \phi$$ where ##S## is the proof-system making part the formal system and ##\phi## is a wff (well formed formula) of the formal language. Note the blank on left of the turnstile symbol ##\vdash_S##, as far as I can tell it actually represents the empty set. So what does it mean ? I guess it actually means ##\phi## is a theorem of the formal system, i.e. there is a...

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