Nondimensional diffusion equation to a dimensional one

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the challenges of transitioning from a nondimensional to a dimensional formulation of the 3D diffusion equation, particularly in the context of modeling the diffusion of light in turbid media. Participants explore the implications of using different units for the speed of light and diffusion coefficient, as well as potential numerical issues arising from these choices.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes their approach to solving the diffusion equation using nondimensional units, questioning whether to maintain this approach or switch to dimensional units given the large disparity between the speed of light and typical diffusion coefficients.
  • Another participant asks why the speed of light is included in the equation, prompting clarification that it models the diffusion of light.
  • A participant acknowledges neglecting the absorption term and discusses the relationship between photon density and fluence rate, while expressing concern about the numerical stability of their finite difference scheme due to the large magnitude of the speed of light compared to other terms.
  • There is a suggestion to review numerical stability conditions related to diffusion equations.
  • A participant raises a question about how to relate spatial and time dimensions when setting the speed of light to 1, seeking clarity on how to define units of time and space in this context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion remains unresolved, with participants expressing different viewpoints on the implications of using nondimensional versus dimensional units and the potential numerical issues that may arise from their choices.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the relationship between physical dimensions and their chosen units when setting the speed of light to 1, indicating a need for further clarification on unit definitions and their implications for numerical stability.

Telemachus
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Well, I was solving the 3D diffusion equation:

##\displaystyle \frac{1}{c}\frac{\partial \phi(\mathbf{r},t)}{\partial t}-D\nabla^2 \phi(\mathbf{r},t)=q(\mathbf{r},t)##.

I wrote a program to do this. The problem concerns the diffusion of light. However, all this time I've been working with nondimensional units. I have set c=1, and solved everything that way, for different values of D.

In real problems, c is the speed of light, which is a huge number (##299 792 458 m / s##), and D is given in centimeters, typical values are around 0.3 cm to 0.01cm. The thing is that D is usually a small number, and c is huge. Should I expect to have some numerical problems when I solve this numerically? whatever I do with the dimensional units, there is no way I can avoid this huge difference of magnitudes, I think I should write everything in centimeters, which is the usual laboratory dimension concerning this type of experiments, or would it be better just to set c=1?

If I choose c=1, that fixes a ratio of space/time, so I'm not sure what should I do with the other variables, basically I'm saying that ##299 792 458 m / s=1##.

I am solving this using a forward Euler scheme in time.
 
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Why is the speed of light in the equation??
 
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Because it models the diffusion of light in turbid media.
 
Yes, I have neglected the absorption term, and it can be actually written in that way (which differs a bit on how it is written at wikipedia). But in the paper I am looking at, it looks the way I have written it (there might be some definitions involved in the middle). The unknown function in the equation I have written is the photon density, and wikipeadia talks about fluence rate.

So, recapitulating. The thing is that I have the speed of light, which is let's say: ##c=2.998\times 10^{10}cm/s##, so I will have some terms in the finite difference scheme which will be tenths orders of magnitude greater than some other terms (because c won't be multiplying every term), and what I want to know is if in my Fortran implementation of the finite difference scheme, using forward Euler in time, should I expect to have some numerical issues due to this.

My finite difference implementation looks like this:

##\phi(\mathbf{r},t^{n+1})=\phi(\mathbf{r},t^{n})+c\Delta t D\nabla^2 \phi(\mathbf{r},t^n)+c\Delta t q(\mathbf{r},t^n)##.

And suppose D=1.
 
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See about diffusion equation numerical stability conditions.
 
If I set ##c=1##, then I am saying that ##3\times 10^{10}cm/s=1##, how can I relate this to the spatial and time dimensions? for example, if my physical dimension is 0.01cm, how much would it be in my units with ##c=1##? should I specify something else like my unit of time in order to determine this? for example, if I say, well ##1s=1##, then I clearly get a relation for my spatial unit: ##3\times 10^{10}cm=1##.
 

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