Normalizing the PDE to make BC's homogeous

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the normalization of a partial differential equation (PDE) related to heat conduction, specifically how to transform the PDE and boundary conditions to achieve homogeneous boundary conditions. Participants explore the implications of these transformations and the reasoning behind them, focusing on theoretical aspects and mathematical procedures.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about the derivation of the normalized PDE and the boundary conditions, questioning how the substitutions were chosen.
  • Others suggest that the choice of working with differences from the asymptotic temperature is natural from a physical perspective, as it simplifies the algebra involved.
  • A participant mentions that the normalization process is intended to make the equations easier to read and write, although it could be done without these substitutions.
  • One participant provides a detailed example of a similar PDE normalization process, discussing the implications of boundary conditions being equal and the resulting transformations.
  • There is a correction regarding the boundary conditions in the example provided, clarifying that they should be homogeneous (u(0,t)=0 and u(1,t)=0) rather than non-homogeneous.
  • Another participant expresses a lack of familiarity with the concept of nondimensionalization and seeks clarification on its application.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the utility of normalizing the PDE for clarity, but there are differing views on the necessity and implications of the specific substitutions made. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the broader applicability of these techniques to different initial and boundary conditions.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the normalization process is contingent on the specific boundary conditions being equal, and that different boundary conditions would lead to different forms of the transformed equations. There is also mention of potential confusion regarding the correct formulation of boundary conditions in the context of the example provided.

bugatti79
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Folks,

Given the pde ## \displaystyle k\frac{\partial^2 T}{\partial x^2}=\rho c_0 \frac{\partial T}{\partial t}## and the BC

##T(0,t)=T_\infty## and ##T(L,t)=T_\infty## for ##t>0## and the initial condition ##T(x,0)=T_0##

The author proceeds to 'normalize' the PDE in order to make the BC homogeneous. He has the following

## \displaystyle \alpha=\frac {k}{\rho c_0}##, ## \bar x = x/L##, ##\displaystyle \bar t = \frac {\alpha t}{L^2}##, ##\displaystyle u=\frac{T-T_\infty}{T_0-T_\infty}##

This leads to

##\displaystyle -\frac{\partial^2 u}{\partial x^2}+ \frac{\partial u}{\partial t}=0##

##u(0,t)=0##, ##u(1,t)=0## and ##u(x,0)=1##

1)How did he arrive at the first and third line from the bottom?

2) Why does he make the BC's homogeneous?
 
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bugatti79 said:
Folks,

Given the pde ## \displaystyle k\frac{\partial^2 T}{\partial x^2}=\rho c_0 \frac{\partial T}{\partial t}## and the BC

##T(0,t)=T_\infty## and ##T(L,t)=T_\infty## for ##t>0## and the initial condition ##T(x,0)=T_0##

The author proceeds to 'normalize' the PDE in order to make the BC homogeneous. He has the following

## \displaystyle \alpha=\frac {k}{\rho c_0}##, ## \bar x = x/L##, ##\displaystyle \bar t = \frac {\alpha t}{L^2}##, ##\displaystyle u=\frac{T-T_\infty}{T_0-T_\infty}##

This leads to

##\displaystyle -\frac{\partial^2 u}{\partial x^2}+ \frac{\partial u}{\partial t}=0##

##u(0,t)=0##, ##u(1,t)=0## and ##u(x,0)=1##

1)How did he arrive at the first and third line from the bottom?
You mean, how did he choose those substitutions?
From the physics it's clear that T is the asymptotic temperature everywhere, so it's natural to work in terms difference from there. (You then expect a factor e-λt in the answer.) Replacing quantities that have dimension by a fraction of some natural unit of that dimension (like, fraction of the way along a rod) also helps to unclutter the algebra.
2) Why does he make the BC's homogeneous?
Just to simplify writing and reading the equations. The analysis thereafter could have been done without any of these substitutions, but it would have been a bit harder to follow.
 
haruspex said:
You mean, how did he choose those substitutions?
From the physics it's clear that T is the asymptotic temperature everywhere, so it's natural to work in terms difference from there. (You then expect a factor e-λt in the answer.) Replacing quantities that have dimension by a fraction of some natural unit of that dimension (like, fraction of the way along a rod) also helps to unclutter the algebra.

Just to simplify writing and reading the equations. The analysis thereafter could have been done without any of these substitutions, but it would have been a bit harder to follow.

ok, I get the idea of what your are saying. Is there a mathematical procedure of where he arrived?

For instance, if I was given a different set of IC's and BC's I wouldn't know how to proceed..
Thanks
 
Suppose
<br /> k\frac{\partial^2 T}{\partial x^2} = \rho c_0 \frac{\partial T}{\partial t}<br />
for a &lt; x &lt; b and t &gt; 0 subject to the boundary conditions T(a,t)=T_\infty and T(b,t)=T_\infty and the initial condition T(x,0) = T_0.

The idea is to set x = a + L\tilde x so that \tilde x = 0 when x = a and \tilde x = 1 when x = b. Clearly this requires L = b - a.

We also set t = S\tilde t, where S is to be chosen later.

We now set T(x,t) = T_\infty + (T_0 - T_\infty)u(\tilde x, \tilde t). With these substitutions we have the boundary conditions that u(0,\tilde t) = u(1,\tilde t) = 1 and the initial condition u(\tilde x,0) = 0.

We have, by the chain rule,
<br /> \frac{\partial T}{\partial t} = \frac{(T_0 - T_\infty)}{S}\frac{\partial u}{\partial \tilde t}, \\<br /> \frac{\partial^2 T}{\partial x^2} = \frac{(T_0 - T_\infty)}{L^2}\frac{\partial^2 u}{\partial \tilde x^2}<br />
so that, substituting these into our intital PDE,
<br /> k \frac{(T_0 - T_\infty)}{L^2}\frac{\partial^2 u}{\partial \tilde x^2} = \rho c_0 \frac{(T_0 - T_\infty)}{S}\frac{\partial u}{\partial \tilde t}.<br />
Now it is convenient to choose S so that
<br /> k\frac{(T_0 - T_\infty)}{L^2} = \rho c_0 \frac{(T_0 - T_\infty)}{S}<br />
which requires
S = \frac{\rho c_0 L^2}{k}
and our PDE is now
<br /> \frac{\partial^2 u}{\partial \tilde x^2} = \frac{\partial u}{\partial \tilde t}<br />
At this point it is conventional to drop the tildes.

This is only possible because the boundary conditions at each end are equal; in general, if we have boundary conditions T(a,t) = T_1 and T(b,t) = T_2, then we can set T = T_{1} + (T_{0} - T_{1})u as before, but our boundary conditions become u(0,t) = 1 and u(1,t) = \theta where \theta = (T_2 - T_1)/(T_0 - T_1).

This is an example of Nondimensionalization.
 
pasmith said:
Suppose
<br /> k\frac{\partial^2 T}{\partial x^2} = \rho c_0 \frac{\partial T}{\partial t}<br />
for a &lt; x &lt; b and t &gt; 0 subject to the boundary conditions T(a,t)=T_\infty and T(b,t)=T_\infty and the initial condition T(x,0) = T_0.

The idea is to set x = a + L\tilde x so that \tilde x = 0 when x = a and \tilde x = 1 when x = b. Clearly this requires L = b - a.

We also set t = S\tilde t, where S is to be chosen later.

We now set T(x,t) = T_\infty + (T_0 - T_\infty)u(\tilde x, \tilde t). With these substitutions we have the boundary conditions that u(0,\tilde t) = u(1,\tilde t) = 1 and the initial condition u(\tilde x,0) = 0.

We have, by the chain rule,
<br /> \frac{\partial T}{\partial t} = \frac{(T_0 - T_\infty)}{S}\frac{\partial u}{\partial \tilde t}, \\<br /> \frac{\partial^2 T}{\partial x^2} = \frac{(T_0 - T_\infty)}{L^2}\frac{\partial^2 u}{\partial \tilde x^2}<br />
so that, substituting these into our intital PDE,
<br /> k \frac{(T_0 - T_\infty)}{L^2}\frac{\partial^2 u}{\partial \tilde x^2} = \rho c_0 \frac{(T_0 - T_\infty)}{S}\frac{\partial u}{\partial \tilde t}.<br />
Now it is convenient to choose S so that
<br /> k\frac{(T_0 - T_\infty)}{L^2} = \rho c_0 \frac{(T_0 - T_\infty)}{S}<br />
which requires
S = \frac{\rho c_0 L^2}{k}
and our PDE is now
<br /> \frac{\partial^2 u}{\partial \tilde x^2} = \frac{\partial u}{\partial \tilde t}<br />
At this point it is conventional to drop the tildes.

This is only possible because the boundary conditions at each end are equal; in general, if we have boundary conditions T(a,t) = T_1 and T(b,t) = T_2, then we can set T = T_{1} + (T_{0} - T_{1})u as before, but our boundary conditions become u(0,t) = 1 and u(1,t) = \theta where \theta = (T_2 - T_1)/(T_0 - T_1).

This is an example of Nondimensionalization.

Thanks for this excellent post. This nondimensionalisation I never heard before. Regards
 
pasmith said:
We now set T(x,t) = T_\infty + (T_0 - T_\infty)u(\tilde x, \tilde t). With these substitutions we have the boundary conditions that u(0,\tilde t) = u(1,\tilde t) = 1 and the initial condition u(\tilde x,0) = 0.

This should read "we have the boundary conditions that u(0,\tilde t) = u(1,\tilde t) = 0 and the initial condition u(\tilde x,0) = 1".

This is only possible because the boundary conditions at each end are equal; in general, if we have boundary conditions T(a,t) = T_1 and T(b,t) = T_2, then we can set T = T_{1} + (T_{0} - T_{1})u as before, but our boundary conditions become u(0,t) = 1 and u(1,t) = \theta where \theta = (T_2 - T_1)/(T_0 - T_1).

This should read "our boundary conditions become u(0,t) = 0 and u(1,t) = \theta".
 
pasmith said:
This should read "we have the boundary conditions that u(0,\tilde t) = u(1,\tilde t) = 0 and the initial condition u(\tilde x,0) = 1".



This should read "our boundary conditions become u(0,t) = 0 and u(1,t) = \theta".

Noted. Thanks for the update.
 

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