Not sure about the magnetic flux (phi) depending on a cosine function

  • Context: High School 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Antoha1
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of magnetic flux, specifically its dependence on the cosine function and whether it can take on negative values. Participants explore the implications of rotating a frame in a magnetic field and how this affects the calculation of magnetic flux. The conversation includes a specific problem involving a frame's rotation and the resulting charge flow through a galvanometer.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether magnetic flux can be negative, suggesting that it relates to the cosine function and the physical interpretation of magnetic field lines through an area.
  • Several participants affirm that magnetic flux can indeed be negative, indicating that this signifies the flux entering from the opposite side.
  • There is a discussion about the change in flux when a frame is rotated 180 degrees, with some participants proposing that this results in a change of 2 times the initial flux.
  • Clarifications are made regarding the terminology used, particularly the definition of "frame" as a loop of wire in the context of a DC motor.
  • Mathematical expressions are introduced, including the relationship between initial and final flux values when the frame is rotated.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that magnetic flux can be negative and that the direction of the magnetic field affects the sign of the flux. However, there is ongoing debate regarding the implications of rotating the frame and the resulting changes in flux, with no consensus reached on the exact nature of these changes.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the mathematical steps involved in calculating changes in flux and the assumptions underlying their interpretations of the problem. The discussion includes various interpretations of the term "frame" and its implications for the calculations being discussed.

Antoha1
Messages
19
Reaction score
2
TL;DR
Hi, school student here. I have a question about magnetic flux. I know it is BAcosa. But can it actually be negative?
Hi, school student here.
I have a question about magnetic flux.
I know it is BAcosa. But can it actually be negative? Based on cosine function it can be, because it is related to it. But based on my logic, magnetic flux is just how much magnetic field (for example lines) goes through the Area (A). (or I may be wrong). EXAMPLE: The frame which Area A=5cm^2 is placed in a magnetic field (perpendicular to B)(B=0,1T). It is then rotated through a=120 degrees. What is the change in magnetic flux? Im thinking about dPhi=B(A1-A2)=BA(1-((abs)(cosa)))
But if it can be negative then it should be just dPhi=B(A1-A2)=BA(1-cosa)

I am adding specific problem to solve. Having this problem right here:
A frame with an area of 5 cm^2 and a resistance of 2 Ω is placed in a uniform magnetic field with an induction of 0.1 T. A galvanometer is connected to the frame. What charge will flow through the galvanometer when the frame is rotated through an angle of 120 degrees? At the beginning of the observation, the plane of the frame is perpendicular to the lines of magnetic induction.

Thank you for helping.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Yes, it can be negative. That just means that the flux is entering the other side.
 
The flux is signed, yes. Remember that magnetic fields have a direction: you want the same strength of field in the opposite direction through the same surface to have the opposite sign.
 
Dale said:
Yes, it can be negative. That just means that the flux is entering the other side.
So, talking about the change in the flux. If the frame in the field is turned 180 degrees, upside down, does the change in the flux become 2*phi(initial)?
 
Antoha1 said:
So, talking about the change in the flux. If the frame in the field is turned 180 degrees, upside down, does the change in the flux become 2*phi(initial)?
Check your signs.

Also note that there's LaTeX here - you can write ##\Phi=BA\cos\theta##. (If that doesn't show as maths, refresh the page.)
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Antoha1
Antoha1 said:
frame in the field
What do you mean by this? By “frame” do you mean a loop of wire?
 
Last edited:
Dale said:
Yes, it can be negative. That just means that the flux is entering the other side.
So, talking about the change in the flux. If the frame in the field is turned 180 degrees, upside down, does the change in the flux become 2*phi(initial
Dale said:
What do you mean by this? By “frame” do you mean a loop of wire?
 
Dale said:
What do you mean by this? By “frame” do you mean a loop of wire?
Yes. Like frame in DC motor
 
Antoha1 said:
Yes. Like frame in DC motor
OK. Frame in physics usually refers to a coordinate system. A loop of wire in a motor is typically called a loop.

If the field makes an angle ##\theta## with a loop and then the loop is rotated by ##\pi## then the new angle will be ##\theta+\pi##.
 
  • #10
Antoha1 said:
So, talking about the change in the flux. If the frame in the field is turned 180 degrees, upside down, does the change in the flux become 2*phi(initial)?
If the initial flux is ## \phi_0##, the final flux will be ## - \phi_0## and the change will be ##-2 \phi_0##.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Dale and Antoha1

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
731
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
1K