Magnetic flux (and flux in general)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of magnetic flux, its interpretation, and the mathematical representation of flux through integrals. Participants explore the implications of integrating magnetic field strength over a surface and the conceptual understanding of flux in relation to force and area.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes flux as a measure of how much of a quantity passes through a surface, specifically referencing magnetic flux as the total magnetic field through a given area.
  • Another participant argues that the perceived loss of "strength" in the magnetic field during integration does not occur if the magnetic field is constant, suggesting that it can be factored out of the integral.
  • A participant acknowledges a misunderstanding regarding the units involved in the integration, realizing that fractional areas still represent finite quantities and contribute to the overall strength being summed.
  • One participant emphasizes that even very small contributions, when considered in large quantities, can still be significant.
  • Two participants express interest in sharing model files related to magnetic flux leakage detection, indicating a practical application of the discussed concepts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the interpretation of flux and its mathematical representation. There are differing views on the implications of integrating magnetic field strength and the significance of fractional areas.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the constancy of the magnetic field and the interpretation of units in the context of integration, which remain unresolved.

archaic
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The general interpretation of flux as I understand it (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is that it represents how much something is going through another (surface or volume (and perhaps lines?)), I'll quote Khanacademy :

Considering that magnetism is a force, I very well understand that we only want the force that is pushing in the direction of the infinitesimal surface and keeping in mind the definition given before, it seems much logical to me to use this :
$$\iint_S \frac{\mathbf{B}\cdot\mathbf{dS}}{|\mathbf{dS}|}$$
We find the direction with the dot product but take off the surface and then we sum up the force. I probably am misunderstanding the flux definition and hope someone would have the kindness to clear this up.
I understand this integral can't be done since we no more have an infinitesimal to integrate with respect to it, but I think you see what I want to say through it.

My problem with this is that when I'm thinking that we're kind of distributing the force over that ##|\mathbf{dS}|## we'll be loosing "strength", ##|\mathbf{B}|*0.00000000...1##, I hope you're getting what I mean.

Thank you for your time!
 
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archaic said:
loosing "strength"
doesn't occur because of the integration: look what you get when ##\bf B## is constant and can be taken out in front of the integral
 
BvU said:
doesn't occur because of the integration: look what you get when ##\bf B## is constant and can be taken out in front of the integral
That would be ##|\mathbf{B}| \iint |\mathbf{dS}|(\hat{\mathbf u}\cdot\hat{\mathbf n})##, I can't see what you wanted to show me though, please do elaborate more.

I got it however, I was thinking wrong from the beginning by ignoring the units, a fractional number of surface would still actually represent something because of the meaning of a square meter which is a finite quantity (a collection of points dare I say) and thus fractions of it are still finite quantities (##n\to\infty\in \mathbb{N}## points forming an area) have escaped my thought, we are actually adding the strength "##n## times", I was blind to the unit.
 
Last edited:
What I meant is that the 0.00000000...1 may seem small, but there are 100000000... of them !
 
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Can I look at your mph model file? I am also doing magnetic flux leakage detection.
 
Georgetown said:
Can I look at your mph model file? I am also doing magnetic flux leakage detection.
Sorry, this was but a conceptual question, I am not doing any research.
 

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