Organic food is a 'deceitful, expensive scam'

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the characterization of organic food as a "deceitful, expensive scam," exploring various perspectives on the economic, environmental, and health implications of organic versus conventional farming practices. Participants examine claims about productivity, sustainability, and the perceived quality of food, with a focus on the broader implications for agriculture and consumer choices.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants reference a study by Steven Savage indicating that organic farms yield less than conventional farms for most crops, suggesting that organic farming may require significantly more land to produce the same amount of food.
  • Others question the characterization of organic food as "deceitful," arguing that the focus should be on quality food rather than solely on organic versus conventional labels.
  • Concerns are raised about the marketing of organic food as healthier and more sustainable, with some participants asserting that these claims are often misleading.
  • Some participants acknowledge that not all organic farms are the same, with examples of farms that may indeed be healthier and more sustainable, emphasizing the variability within the organic sector.
  • There is a discussion about the impact of synthetic fertilizers and pesticides on food quality and environmental health, with references to recent environmental studies highlighting issues such as dead zones in water bodies linked to agricultural runoff.
  • Participants express differing views on the implications of individual cases of organic farming, with some arguing that these do not represent the broader trends in organic agriculture.
  • One participant shares personal experiences with growing their own food, reflecting on the challenges and outcomes of home gardening.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether organic food is deceitful or a scam, with multiple competing views presented regarding the quality, sustainability, and health benefits of organic versus conventional farming. The discussion remains unresolved, with ongoing debate about the validity of claims made by both sides.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the reliance on specific studies and anecdotal evidence, as well as the complexity of defining terms like "healthier" and "sustainable" in the context of agricultural practices. The discussion highlights the variability in farming practices and consumer perceptions, which complicates generalizations about organic food.

  • #31
Oldman too said:
The "delivery charge" applies to all sales, not just sale items. It's a fuel increase thing, they also raised prime rates.
So...the sale really is a sale and there's no deceit? This is why I'd like an answer/clarification from @Bystander .
 
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  • #32
As this thread received an Easter resurrection, might as well add this - Sri Lanka actually mandated organic farming, banning artificial fertilizer, with predictable results:

Sri Lanka’s Plunge Into Organic Farming Brings Disaster​

The economically troubled country banned chemical fertilizers without preparing farmers, prompting a surge in food prices and worries about shortages.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/07/world/asia/sri-lanka-organic-farming-fertilizer.htmlunfortunately fertilizer prices are spiking due to high nat gas prices and the war in Ukraine, making a tough growing season for farmers

maybe Peruvian guano exports will become economical again? Is that considered organic?
 
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  • #33
russ_watters said:
BTW, everyone, this thread is 4 years old...
Not anymore...
 
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  • #34
russ_watters said:
This is why I'd like an answer/clarification from
It's always the same price. The "deception" is in the presentation/s of the charges; just watch the price/s for Ship of Fools for a little while.
 
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  • #35
BWV said:
maybe Peruvian guano exports will become economical again? Is that considered organic?
Yes, unless adulterated.
 
  • #36
The appeal of organic food has a lot to do with distrust, and with good reason.
 
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  • #37
BillTre said:
Yes, unless adulterated.
Looks like organic farming resurrected the market for peruvian seabird crap, can buy the stuff on Amazon

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077GH494S/?tag=pfamazon01-20

$90 for 15 pounds, 3x the price of Miracle-Gro

No Chinese slaves harvesting the stuff anymore, just poor Peruvians. The stuff is only a few feet deep, whereas it was over 200 ft high at the start of the industry in the 19th century

https://www.audubon.org/news/holy-crap-trip-worlds-largest-guano-producing-islands
 
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  • #38
BillTre said:
Yes, unless adulterated.
True, there's enough unadulterated cr@p in the world.
 
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