Orifice Diameter Impact on Vortex Formation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on how the diameter of an orifice influences vortex formation, particularly in the context of a water vortex power plant. Participants explore the relationship between orifice size and the characteristics of the resulting vortex, including its height and strength.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the effect of orifice diameter on vortex formation, seeking information that is not readily available online.
  • Another participant asks for clarification on the type of vortex being referenced and requests details about the experimental setup to facilitate better responses.
  • A participant mentions that the discussion relates to a water vortex power plant and specifies the need to understand how the orifice diameter affects vortex characteristics.
  • References to historical investigations of vortex dynamics by Lord Kelvin and Helmholtz are provided, suggesting that foundational theories may be relevant to the discussion.
  • A participant shares a mathematical formula related to controlling outflow through varying the cross-sectional area of an orifice, indicating that smaller apertures may be necessary to reduce flow rates.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not appear to reach a consensus, as there are multiple viewpoints regarding the influence of orifice diameter on vortex formation and the specifics of the experimental setup remain unclear.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes references to historical theories and mathematical models, but there are limitations in the assumptions made regarding the relationship between orifice diameter and vortex characteristics. The exact conditions under which these relationships hold are not fully explored.

hao1030
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can anyone tell me how the orifice diameter can affect the vortex forming ?
no much info from internet , thanks for help~:smile:
 
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hao1030, Welcome to Physics Forums!

Are you asking about a "bathtub" vortex? What orfice are you referring to? Will you please describe your experimental setup in more detail? This will help all the members here to respond more effectively.

Thank you, Bobbywhy
 
Bobbywhy said:
hao1030, Welcome to Physics Forums!

Are you asking about a "bathtub" vortex? What orfice are you referring to? Will you please describe your experimental setup in more detail? This will help all the members here to respond more effectively.

Thank you, Bobbywhy

it is water vortex power plant
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitation_water_vortex_power_plant
i have a basin with a certain orifice diameter , i want to know how this orifice can influence my vortex forming and it height/ strength .
 
Check PF
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=9987

http://mysite.du.edu/~jcalvert/tech/fluids/vortex.htm

http://depts.washington.edu/chemcrs/bulkdisk/chem520A_aut05/notes_Week_05_Lecture_11.pdf

Vortex was investigated by Lord Levin and Helmholtz in the 1800's so you might want to search for their theorems.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hope this helps! Here find a pdf document with the mathematical formula for controlling the outflow (which appears to be applicable from a water vortex) by varying the cross sectional area of the opening:

618 WSUD09: CONFERENCE PROCEEDINGS
TOWARDS WATER SENSITIVE CITIES AND CITIZENS: THE 6TH INTERNATIONAL WATER SENSITIVE URBAN DESIGN CONFERENCE AND HYDROPOLIS #3

Flow Controls
Conventional flow control devices such as orifice plates, throttle pipes and penstocks have traditionally been used for controlling outflows from retention and detention structures. The fundamental equation governing the operating characteristics of most flow control devices is given by equation 1: The formula shows that in order to reduce flow rate (Q) for a given operating head (h), you either need to reduce the cross sectional area (A) of the outlet or the co-efficient of discharge (Cd) for the flow control device. Orifice plates have a fixed co-efficient of discharge (typically ~ 0.6) which means that smaller aperture sizes are needed to reduce flow rates.

Where Q = Continuation flow in m3/s
Cd = Coefficient of discharge
A = Cross-sectional area of outlet (m2)
g = Acceleration due to gravity (m/s2)
h = Differential head across flow control (m)
Q = Cd A 2 gh

www.rocla.com.au/Drawings/WSUD%2009_Vortex%20Flow%20 ...
 
Last edited by a moderator:

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