Origin of our universe 4D black hole

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around a model proposed by researchers at the Perimeter Institute, suggesting that our three-dimensional universe may exist as the event horizon of a four-dimensional black hole. Participants explore the implications of this model, including whether three-dimensional black holes might contain two-dimensional universes within their event horizons. The conversation touches on theoretical physics, general relativity, and the nature of proof in scientific discourse.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants find the notion of our universe as an event horizon intriguing, while others express skepticism, labeling it as "mathematical nonsense."
  • There is a belief among some that general relativity (GR) may not accurately describe phenomena at black hole scales, with claims that singularities may not exist.
  • A participant references a paper related to the topic, questioning the credibility of the authors based on their previous work.
  • Several participants engage in a debate about the nature of proof in physics versus mathematics, with discussions on empirical observations and the limitations of theoretical models.
  • One participant expresses a desire to understand the mathematics behind the claims to gain a clearer understanding of the concepts discussed.
  • Another participant critiques the extraordinary claim of our universe being a variant of a black hole, suggesting it lacks extraordinary evidence.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of curiosity and skepticism regarding the proposed model. There is no consensus on the validity of the model, and multiple competing views remain regarding the implications of black holes and the nature of proof in physics.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of general relativity and its implications for black holes, noting that the theoretical nature of these models may not align with observable phenomena. The discussion also reflects on the philosophical aspects of scientific proof and the role of mathematical models in understanding reality.

  • #31
StonedPhysicist said:
But perhaps our own universe is a computer simulation, which there is no way to prove or disprove at the moment, so if it is a computer simulation, in this case there would have to be an underlying mathematical model that IS reality because our universe is governed by it?

Give it a rest. You're just trying to win an argument that you have already lost.

Moderators, please close this thread.
 
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  • #32
I recommend Karl Popper's The Logic of Scientific Discovery for his insights into verification-ism as proof and developed a much better solution to the Problem of Demarcation in falsifiability. On point, fifty years after 'Logic' he wrote an anniversary postscript that grew into three volumes, one of which is Quantum Theory and the Schism in Physics: From the Postscript to the Logic of Scientific Discovery (1992 Routledge).

On proof, in general, a number of contemporaries, influential at least to me, caution against naive use of inductive inference for not reliably revealing the Black Swan hiding, camouflaged in the background complexity of reality. An assertion of non-existence cannot be sustained without examination of the entire universe of discussion. In physics and cosmology that is clearly impossible.
 
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  • #33
Our young member must needs read on the Boltzmann Brain and the Boltzmann Babies paradox, aspects of cosmological natural selection, and beware of infinite regressions.

Later; and of ad-hockery! Make your argument and let it stand or fall on its original structure, rather than patching and shoring a shaky structure into a cracker-box.
 
  • #34
The discussion in this thread is no longer on the original topic. The thread will therefore remain closed.
 

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