Oscillatory solution for a given Lagrangian

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a Lagrangian involving a charged particle, specifically focusing on deriving equations of motion and exploring solutions in the context of oscillatory motion in the x-y plane.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the application of the Euler-Lagrange equations to derive equations of motion. There are attempts to solve a system of differential equations related to the motion in the x-y plane, with some questioning the correctness of signs in the equations. Others reflect on their understanding of differential equations and the nature of solutions, particularly regarding oscillatory behavior.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided guidance on the general solution to the differential equations, while others express uncertainty about their methods and the need for particular solutions. There is an acknowledgment of oscillatory motion in the solutions derived, but no consensus has been reached on the complete approach or resolution of the problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention a lack of initial conditions for finding particular solutions, which may affect the completeness of their approaches. There is also a reference to the mathematical background of participants, indicating varying levels of familiarity with the subject matter.

Siberion
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Homework Statement



Consider the following Lagrangian:[tex]L = \frac{m}{2}(x'^2+y'^2+z'^2) + \frac{q}{2}(xy'-yx')[/tex]

Where q denotes a charged particle.

a) Find the equations of motion
b) Find the solution for z
c) Find the solution in the x-y plane, and prove that it corresponds to an oscillatory motion along both axes.

The Attempt at a Solution



Considering the Euler-Lagrange equations, the solution for coordinate z is given by:

d/dt (mz') = 0
Thus, a solution for z corresponds to a uniform linear motion along z axis.

For x and y, I get the following systems of dif. equations:

mx'' - qy' = 0
my'' + qx' = 0

I tried solving this system by integrating and substituting,

i.e. mx'' = qy' /integrate
mx' = qy + C
x' = qy/m + C

Substituting, we get
y'' + y(q^2)/(m^2) = C

The inverse process could be done to get an equation for x.

Which I do not think is the right answer, and I don't know how many laws of mathematics I violated while doing that. Could anyone please show me what is the right procedure to solve this system of equations?

Also, I have the impression this Lagrangian corresponds to a charge q interacting with an electromagnetic field. It would be great if anyone could explain me a little bit further about that.Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks a lot.
 
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Siberion said:
mx'' - qy' = 0
my'' - qx' = 0

Should both equations have a negative sign in the left side?
 
TSny said:
Should both equations have a negative sign in the left side?

Sorry, my bad, I missed a minus sign in the second equation, then the system becomes:

mx'' - qy' = 0
my'' + qx' = 0

Following the same process I mentioned before, equation for y becomes:

y'' + y(q^2)/(m^2) = C
 
I'm not sure of your math background. If you've had a course in differential equations, then you know that the general solution to this type of equation is y = yh + yp where yh is the general solution of the homogeneous equation y'' + (q/m)2y = 0 and yp is any particular solution of y'' + (q/m)2y = C.
 
TSny said:
I'm not sure of your math background. If you've had a course in differential equations, then you know that the general solution to this type of equation is y = yh + yp where yh is the general solution of the homogeneous equation y'' + (q/m)2y = 0 and yp is any particular solution of y'' + (q/m)2y = C.

I'm sorry if this becomes too obvious. I've taken Dif. Equations, but my math background is a bit blurry at the moment, because I've just re-taken classes. Once I recall the methods things go easier.

I can see that the solution for the homogeneus equation is indeed an oscillatory motion, both for x and y. I'm having trouble about what to do with the particular solution since I don't have any initial condition.

Would you say that the method I applied to solve the problem is correct?

Thanks for your help.
 
Yes, your method is a correct way to do it. You've found the general solution to y'' + (q/m)2y = 0. Now you just need any particular solution to y'' + (q/m)2y = C. You should be able to this by inspection. You do not need initial conditions here.
 

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