Let me clarify. There is no doubt the Palestinian "identity" is real, which at this point is the shared experience and horror of displacement by a mixed group of Arabs (and at one time included Jews before the establishment of Israel). This is very unlike the Kurds or the Jews. My point was not to discount the Palestinian identity but to state that it is an Arabic ethnic and nation state with hundreds of years of identity is not right...which propaganda from the other side claims. That was what I was railing against, not that they now don't have their identity.
With that said, it doesn't mean they don't deserve their own land with which they can call their own. I'm with you on that one. Perhaps my attempt to argue semantics destroyed that.
And why don't the Palestinans deserve the land that was taken from them in Israel?
No doubt most Israelis don't come from Israel. But the so called extreme factions of "Palestinians" ( which seems to be controlling the PLO as stated above ) claim Israel belongs to them because of some birthright.
Again conbsidering that the Palestians owned most of Israel and where the majority there only 50 years ago, why don't they have the right to claim this? if they are not allowed to where does this leave Zionism?
They've been offered their own state, and rejected it each time. The facts surrounding which I admit to utter ignorance. It seems to me, instead of negotiating in good faith, the Palestinians have elected to walk from peace conferences each time with NOTHING...
They have only been offered statehood once, the offer was rejected, as 1) it was not a withdrawal to pre1967 borders 2) many of the settlemnts remained
3) the Israelis remained in control of the West Banks natural resources 4) the arae in the West Bank was non-contionous 5) The Israeli's remained in control of all the borders and airspace 6) even areas taht were supposedly to be given to the Palestina state were to be occupied by the Isaelis indefintely.
The Palestianns are not just going to accept such a patently unfair deal because Israel tries to intimdate them to do so.
Despite years of senseless and unsuccessful war, the Palestinian leadership, the majority of its population, and the broader Arab seemingly refuse to accept that Israel is not going to disappear.
Again claptrap, as I siadszince the seventies the efefctive goal has been the withdrawal of Israel from pre-1967 borders.
The vast majority of Israelis favor a "two state solution" . I believe Israel has largely given up the "greater Israel" concept that dominated the first few decades after 1967. However, can the same be said of the Palestinian side?
Most Palestians accept that only a two-state soltuion is realistic, bt there is certainly nothing wrong with them wishing to have the land that was stolen from them in 1948 returned.
In order to achieve peace the Palestinians and Israelis are going to have to compromise. To expect at this point that there will be no Israeli settlemets left on the west bank is unrealistic. To cling to this idea only worsens the daily lives of Palestinians. Ideally, I'd like them to have this land all to themselves, but I am being realistic.
Bull****, there is no realistic way that these settlemnts can remain and there be peace in the area. Israel has built them there illegally in order to to steal more land, they certainly should not be rewarded for this. No-one in the inetrantional community expects them to remain as part of a fianl stsus deal and Israel has no right to expect them to remain either.
To quote Abba Eban former Israeli UN ambassador "I think this is the first war in history where, on the morrow, the victors have sued for peace and the vanquished have immediately called for unconditional surrender".
In 1948 Israel refused to allow the refugees to return to their homes who give up the land it had captured that can hardly be seen as suing for peace.
In addition, Jewish settlements won't go away. An Israeli will ask...why can't Israelis live and work among the Palestinians?I believe 20% of Israeli citizens are Arabs, and in the Olso years many Palestinians lived and worked in Israel. . Must the Palestinian state be entirely free of Jews which I believe is the majority feeling by the Palestinians? (Just as an aside under Palestinian law selling land to a Jew carries a death penalty, no such law exists in Israel but on the other hand, if a Jew marries a Arab from outside Israel they face expulsion...ugly tit for tat)
They can liev and work among the Paletinas, but the settlemnts are illegal (the Fourth Geneva conevtion) and on stolen land so they must go. The settlers have no right to live there and moved there knowinfg full well it was illegal and the land was stolen, the Israeli arabs on the other hand ar in Israel legally.
If we want to talk propqganda, my six months working in Doctors without Borders in that area taught me it exists in a more frightning way among the Palestinians. (we had Christian Palestinian medical staff who translated). Apparently, it is not uncommon for the children to be taught the Holocaust never happened. Thus, the only singular "real" reason for Israel's existence will now vanish from the reality of the new generation...and so the viscious, horrific cycle will perpetuate. (Albiet, this is just my personal experience and such "censored" teaching may only represent one refugee camp's social makeup.)
It's not uncommon, but you would not blive the depths of racism ON BOTH SIDES, it's hardly unique to the Palestinas
The way I look at it, both sides are reactionary in a sort of en masse, dysfunctional Post traumatic stress disorder type behavior. In other words, it is a viscious cycle that can only be broken from the outside. That's why the Israeli/palestinian problem should not soley be Israel's problem. The US needs to police or condemn Israel's brutal tactics more. The surrounding Arab nations who sit close to Israel's jugular (and are former wartime enemies ) need to come out and support the moderate Palestinian factions. (Their seeming silence against the extremists can only be seen by the Israelis as silent condoning of such activities.) Thus, both sides, Palestinians and Israeli Jews, are reacting like cornered prey.
The problem is you don't help at all, by distorting the motivations of the Palestinans and not recognising that the settlements have to go.
