Passive radiative cooling of surfaces below ambient air temperature

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the phenomenon of passive radiative cooling, specifically how surfaces can cool below ambient air temperature to facilitate water harvesting from the atmosphere. The scope includes theoretical implications, thermodynamic principles, and practical applications in water-scarce environments.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that passive radiative cooling can allow surfaces to cool below ambient air temperature without energy input, referencing scientific literature.
  • One participant highlights that conventional radiative cooling foils emit thermal radiation in specific wavelengths that allow heat to escape to space, leading to cooling below the dew point temperature of air.
  • Another participant questions the implications of thermodynamic equilibrium, asking whether the cooling surfaces are in equilibrium with the surrounding air or if their partial transparency affects this contact.
  • A later reply clarifies that the surface is in convective contact with the air and radiative contact with the night sky, which is at a lower temperature than the air, suggesting that the surface temperature is influenced by both environments.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of thermodynamic laws in relation to the cooling effect, with some asserting that there are no violations of these laws, while others raise questions about the nature of thermal equilibrium in this context. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the interpretation of thermodynamic principles.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions about the assumptions regarding thermal contact and the specific conditions under which passive radiative cooling operates effectively. The discussion also touches on the dependence of the phenomenon on environmental factors such as temperature differences and atmospheric conditions.

greypilgrim
Messages
581
Reaction score
44
Apparently, it's possible to cool surfaces below ambient air temperature by passive (no input of energy required) radiative cooling to harvest water from the atmosphere:
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abf3978

There's also a Nature paper about this effect, but behind a paywall:
https://www.nature.com/articles/nature13883

This looks like a textbook example of a device violating the zeroth law of thermodynamics, but apparently it's not. Why?
 
Science news on Phys.org
The key is in this quote from the first paper you linked:

A conventional radiative cooling foil that is used for dew harvesting emits thermal radiation in the wavelength range where the atmosphere is mostly transparent (8 to 13 μm) and can therefore directly emit heat radiatively to space. This effect cools the foil below the dew point temperature of air, causing water to condense upon it, which is termed “dewing” (20). Fortunately, most regions affected by high water scarcity have a natural advantage of abundant sunshine and hence a clear sky, which are optimal conditions for radiative cooling (21).

The surface is losing heat by radiation to the night sky while gaining heat by convection. It can only gain heat by convection when it is cooler than the surrounding air. A practical means of harvesting water is then a matter of optimizing the details. It helps that in a desert climate, the day to night temperature change is about 40 deg F.

Thus, there are not violations of the laws of thermodynamics.
 
But still, thermodynamics states that two systems in contact will reach the same temperature in thermodynamic equilibrium. So what's not the case here: is this not equilibrium, or is the surface somehow not in complete contact with the surrounding air because it's partially transparent?
 
The surface is in convective contact with the air.
The surface is in radiative contact with the night sky.
The night sky is at lower temperature than the air.
Therefore, the surface temperature will be between the air temperature and the night sky temperature.

Good search terms to learn more are radiation heat transfer.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
8K
  • · Replies 152 ·
6
Replies
152
Views
11K
  • · Replies 43 ·
2
Replies
43
Views
8K
  • · Replies 53 ·
2
Replies
53
Views
13K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
5
Views
5K