Path of Photon in Free Falling Lift: General Theory of Relativity Q&A

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the path of a photon in the context of general relativity, specifically examining the thought experiment involving a photon traveling in a free falling lift. Participants explore how the frame of reference of the lift influences the perceived path of the photon for observers both inside the lift and on the ground, as well as the implications for understanding spacetime curvature near Earth.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that for an observer inside the free falling lift, the photon path appears straight, while for an observer on Earth, it appears curved, raising questions about the relationship to spacetime bending.
  • Another participant confirms that the photon will still travel a curved path without the lift, emphasizing that the path must be straight in the free falling frame due to the Equivalence Principle, implying it must curve in the ground frame.
  • A different perspective suggests that discussing photons in the context of general relativity should involve quantum field theory in curved spacetime, proposing to substitute "light pulse" for "photon."
  • One participant argues that a frame of reference does not affect physical processes, but rather describes them differently, specifically regarding the path of a light pulse in curved spacetime.
  • Another participant asserts that the specific scenario of a lift is not unique, suggesting that similar experiments could be conducted with different setups, such as a thin wire cage, indicating that the free fall condition is the key factor.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of the frame of reference and the terminology used (photon vs. light pulse). There is no consensus on the necessity of quantum field theory in this context, nor on the interpretation of the effects of the frame of reference on physical processes.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the nature of light and its behavior in curved spacetime remain unresolved, particularly regarding the implications of using different terminology and the effects of various frames of reference.

CassiopeiaA
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I just started reading general theory of relativity. I have some elementary questions. Not an english speaker so bear with me.

I am reading the thought experiment which describes path of a photon in a free falling lift. For an observer inside the lift, the photon path is a straight line. But for an observer standing on earth, the photon will travel a curved path, which is the shortest path taken by it to maintain a constant distance from the floor of the lift. My question is how does this relate to the bending of spacetime near earth? Will the photon still travel a curved path if there is no lift and only an observer on earth? How does the frame of reference of the lift effect the path of photon as seen by an observer on earth? Please help me if I am missing a point here.
 
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CassiopeiaA said:
Will the photon still travel a curved path if there is no lift and only an observer on earth?
Yes

CassiopeiaA said:
How does the frame of reference of the lift effect the path of photon as seen by an observer on earth? Please help me if I am missing a point here.
The point is that the path must be straight in the free falling frame (see Equivalence Principle), so it must curve in the ground frame.
 
First of all, you (or the textbook author) really should not be talking about photons in the GR setting unless you are ready to do quantum field theory in a curved space-time. Whenever they write photon, substitute "light pulse".

CassiopeiaA said:
How does the frame of reference of the lift effect the path of photon as seen by an observer on earth?
A frame of reference can never have any effect on a physical process. They might describe physical processes differently but the process itself is the same. In this case, it is the path of a light pulse in a curved space-time.
 
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CassiopeiaA said:
Will the photon still travel a curved path if there is no lift and only an observer on earth? How does the frame of reference of the lift effect the path of photon as seen by an observer on earth? Please help me if I am missing a point here.

There is nothing special about it being a"lift." You can imagine the same experiment with the lift replaced by a thin wire cage. You can then make the wires fewer and fewer in number and thinner and thinner. There is no physical effect of the lift other than that it is in free fall.
 

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