Penrose Singularity: Trapped & Anti-Trapped Surfaces Explained

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the concepts of trapped and anti-trapped surfaces in the context of Penrose's singularity theorems, exploring their definitions, implications for black holes, and relevance to the early universe. The inquiry seeks lay explanations and clarifications regarding these terms and their significance in theoretical physics.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks a lay explanation of trapped and anti-trapped surfaces and their role in singularity theorems.
  • A trapped surface is defined as a 2-sphere where radially outgoing light rays do not move outward, indicating that the area of the surface formed by these light rays is not increasing.
  • Another participant notes that the term "anti-trapped surface" is not commonly found in the literature and suggests that the application of trapped surfaces in singularity theorems can work in both temporal directions.
  • The singularity theorems imply that if a spacetime contains a trapped surface and certain energy conditions are satisfied, it must also contain a singularity, with specific implications for black holes and the early universe.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the definition of "anti-trapped surface," and the discussion remains open regarding the nuances of trapped surfaces and their implications in singularity theorems.

Contextual Notes

The discussion does not resolve the definitions or implications of anti-trapped surfaces, nor does it clarify the specific energy conditions referenced in the singularity theorems.

windy miller
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As I understand Penrose proved there must a be a singularity using certain assumption for black holes and something called a "trapped surface:. Can anyone give a lay person explanation of what this and "anti trapped surface" are? How were they used in the singularity theorems and what was new? Many thanks
 
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windy miller said:
Can anyone give a lay person explanation of what this and "anti trapped surface" are?

A trapped surface is a 2-sphere on which radially outgoing light rays are not moving outward; or, to put it another way, the 2-sphere formed by the set of all radially outgoing null geodesics from the trapped surface has an area that is not increasing. Normally, we expect that light rays moving radially outward from a 2-sphere will form a 2-sphere whose area is increasing; a trapped surface violates this expectation.

I have not seen the term "anti trapped surface" in the literature. However, the application of trapped surfaces in the singularity theorems works in either direction of time; see further comments below.

windy miller said:
How were they used in the singularity theorems

The singularity theorems say that if a spacetime contains a trapped surface and certain energy conditions are met (these conditions, heuristically, amount to gravity being always attractive), the same spacetime will also contain a singularity. More precisely, if a spacetime contains a trapped surface and meets certain energy conditions, the spacetime will also contain incomplete timelike or null geodesics (i.e., geodesics that cannot be extended past some finite value of their affine parameter).

When applied in the future direction of time (i.e., "outgoing" light rays are outgoing towards the future), the theorems tell us that there must be a singularity inside a black hole, since if the energy conditions are met there must be a trapped surface either at or inside the event horizon of a black hole.

When applied in the past direction of time (i.e., "outgoing" light rays are outgoing towards the past), the theorems tell us that there must be a singularity at the beginning of the universe in FRW spacetimes that satisfy the energy conditions.
 
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Thanks Peter , much appreciated
 

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