Permissibility of Limit Technique

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Yitzach
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Limit
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the permissibility of a limit technique used in a problem related to electromagnetism (EM) homework. Participants explore the validity of a series of limit manipulations and the conditions under which they hold, particularly focusing on the implications of the results obtained.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a sequence of limit manipulations and questions whether the method can be generalized based on the nature of the limits involved.
  • Another participant notes that the method works if x is a known positive real number, but emphasizes the importance of ensuring that limits are well-defined and the denominator is nonzero.
  • A participant raises the concern of needing to check for other potential solutions, such as zero and infinity, after arriving at a result using the method.
  • There is a discussion about the choice to limit the answer to positive real numbers, with one participant clarifying that the intention was to avoid zero and positive infinity.
  • Some participants acknowledge the existence of simpler methods for solving the problem but focus on the permissibility of the approach taken in the limit manipulations.
  • One participant argues that since the limits are being evaluated for real numbers, the limit must be considered as an extended real number if it exists.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the permissibility of the limit technique and the conditions under which it is valid. There is no consensus on whether the method can be generalized, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of the limits involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of ensuring that limits are well-defined and that the conditions for applying limit properties are met. There is also mention of alternative methods that could be simpler, but these are not explored in detail.

Yitzach
Messages
60
Reaction score
0
The following came from a step in my EM homework. I came up with the answer that all of my resources (calculator, WolframAlpha, and a friend) were indicating as the correct answer, so it is not about the homework. This is about the permissibility of what was done.
1. x=\lim_{n\rightarrow\infty}n\sin\frac{\pi}{n}
2. x=\lim_{n\rightarrow\infty}\frac{n}{\csc\frac{\pi}{n}}
3. x=\lim_{n\rightarrow\infty}\frac{1}{\frac{\pi\cos\frac{\pi}{n}}{n^2\sin^2\frac{\pi}{n}}}
4. x=\lim_{n\rightarrow\infty}\frac{n^2\sin^2\frac{\pi}{n}}{\pi\cos\frac{\pi}{n}}
5. x=\lim_{n\rightarrow\infty}\frac{x^2}{\pi\cos\frac{\pi}{n}}
6. \frac{1}{x}=\lim_{n\rightarrow\infty}\frac{1}{\pi\cos\frac{\pi}{n}}
7. x=\lim_{n\rightarrow\infty}\pi\cos\frac{\pi}{n}
8. x=\pi\cos0=\pi
Given that the exponent on x in step 5 is not 1, x is not zero or infinity, and that x is not the entirety of the argument of the limit, can we/I conclude that this will work in general?
Other possible solutions between 1 and 8 include a change in variable, the limit if the series expansion at infinity, the squeeze theorem, or using the inverse of step two instead.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
If x is known to exist and be a positive real number, then this method works, although it is presented mildly sloppily -- remember that lim A/B is (lim A)/(lim B) if both limits on the right hand side are known to exist, and the denominator is nonzero.


Note that x = +\infty and x = 0 are also solutions to the extended real number equation
x = \frac{x^2}{\pi}
 
By what you said here, I take it to mean that once an answer has been arrived at by this method, it would be advisable/required to check 0 and infinity to make sure that they are not the answer. In this case I knew that neither of those could be the answer based on the nature of the question and the fact that the answer had to exist or the question would not have been asked.
Why did you limit the answer to positive real numbers?
 
Yitzach said:
Why did you limit the answer to positive real numbers?
Really, I just wanted to avoid zero and +infinity. I could have said "nonzero real". (which avoids -infinity too, but ah well)
 
Yitzach said:
The following came from a step in my EM homework. I came up with the answer that all of my resources (calculator, WolframAlpha, and a friend) were indicating as the correct answer, so it is not about the homework. This is about the permissibility of what was done.

So you are aware or do you care that much simpler more direct arguments are available?
 
Hurkyl said:
Really, I just wanted to avoid zero and +infinity. I could have said "nonzero real". (which avoids -infinity too, but ah well)
Fair enough. So is there a reason for real numbers?

LCKurtz said:
So you are aware or do you care that much simpler more direct arguments are available?
Yes I was aware of other methods. I was wondering about the permissibility of what I did for if I wanted to do it again later. Notice that I mentioned four other methods in the initial post.
 
Yitzach said:
Fair enough. So is there a reason for real numbers?
We are looking at a limit of real numbers, so the limit, if it exists, must be an extended real number.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K