Person in a bus (accelerating system)

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pinsky
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Hy

I'm having some issues about the Newtons third law.

The image should represent a person in a bus with and the forces acting on them.
The bus and the person are observed from outside the bus. The bus starts accelerating because of the force [itex]F_{BUS MOVING}[/itex]. This force represent the resultant force of the friction between the bus and the ground, and the buses starting force.


As a result, friction force [itex]F_{P-BUS}[/itex] occurs and it acts on the bus because of the mass of the person.
As a reaction, a force of the same size but opposite direction acts on the person [itex]F_{BUS-P}[/itex]

What is the sum of the forces on the bus?
[itex]F_{BUS MOVING}-F_{P-BUS}[/itex] ?

How would one calculate [itex]F_{P-BUS}[/itex] by knowing the mass of the person and [itex]\mu[/itex]?

Is this the solution?
[itex]F_{BUS MOVING}-F_{P-BUS}=F_{BUS-P}[/itex]

Since in this case, the bus and the person have the same value and orientation. That is what a observer from the street would see, right?

Diagram of a stick figure person inside a rectangular bus outline, with red arrows labelled F_P-BUS pointing left, F_BUS-P pointing right on the person, and F_BUS MOVING pointing right on the bus.
 
Attachments
  • Diagram of a box-shaped bus with a stick figure person inside, showing red arrows: F_P-BUS pointing left, F_BUS-P pointing right on the person, and F_BUS MOVING pointing right on the bus.
    person_in_bus.gif
    3.4 KB · Views: 717
  • Two diagrams of a block A on a cart B with wheels on a ground line; the lower one labels forces F1, FBA, and FAB acting on A and B.
    trenje.gif
    3.4 KB · Views: 571
Last edited:
Welcome to PF!

Hi pinsky! Welcome to PF! :smile:

(try using the X2 tag just above the Reply box :wink:)

FP-BUS always equals (minus) FBUS-P.

If you regard the friction as an internal force, then you ignore it, and F = (MBUS + m)a.

If you regard the friction as an external force, then you include it, and F - FP-BUS = MBUSa. :wink:
 
Thanks for the welcome.

I didn't understand your explanation though.

Could you perhaps draw all the forces in a situation where the bus is starting, and the friction between the bus and the person in the bus isn't enough to prevent the person from gently sliding. So in that case we can't observe the bus and the person as a single object.
Draw the forces as they appear from the point of view of a person standing still outside the bus.

I made you a template to spare the time :)
 
Attachments
  • Blank template of a bus interior drawn as a rectangle with a simple stick figure standing on the floor, with no force arrows drawn yet.
    person_in_bus_template.gif
    2 KB · Views: 594
I'm not drawing it, but if the force on the bus is F, and the friction force is G, then

F - G = MBUSaBUS,

G = mPaP :smile: