PF Culture is Toxic: No Grounds for Thread Closing

[phinds]

If deleting my post entirely counts as "strong argument"...

Well, the posts that I have seen that have been deleted have all deserved to be deleted and based on moderators patience I doubt that there are many, if any, where I would have disagreed with their decision. True, I have not see all deleted posts, but I have a lot of confidence in the moderators. It's unfortunate that your experience has been different but you should look closely at the extent to which that might say something about you rather than about the moderators.

 

[nikkkom]

Well, the posts that I have seen that have been deleted have all deserved to be deleted and based on moderators patience I doubt that there are many, if any, where I would have disagreed with their decision. True, I have not see all deleted posts, but I have a lot of confidence in the moderators. It's unfortunate that your experience has been difference but you should look closely at the extent to which that might say something about you rather than about the moderators.

Your argument contains no facts. You did not see the post I mention, yet you already have a conclusion that I'm an awful person. Wow.

 

[phinds]

Your argument contains no facts. You did not see the post I mention, yet you already have a conclusion that I'm an awful person. Wow.

Hm ... based on this over-reaction I'm getting a good idea of what the issue is here.

 

[Nugatory]

OK... Both of you... Out of the water! NOW! No fighting, it just makes work for the mentors.

 

[Nugatory]

If one of your posts has been removed for reasons that you do not understand or accept, you can appeal it to all the mentors. We do sometimes make mistakes in applying the PF rules, we do sometimes misunderstand the point a poster is trying to make, and sometimes we just plain get a judgment call wrong.

If you want to contribute to a closed (either for you or for everybody) thread you can always ask that it be reopened. Arguing that it should be reopened because hypothetically someone else might eventually post something interesting/useful in it will not be very convincing; "I want to add <THIS> to the thread" is more convincing.

 

[Dale]

There have been a lot of good comments, including some good recommendations where we as moderators can make improvements. However, I wanted to directly address one comment in the OP

the inability of users to figure out a question is not grounds for closing a thread

Here I disagree. One of the things that distinguishes PF from other forums is our large group of subject experts. Many of the things that we do are done in order to retain such experts, to provide them an environment which is different from the free-for-all at other sites where they can share their expertise.

If such experts cannot understand the question then they get irritated and if they get irritated too often then they leave. As such we deliberately place a higher burden on the questioner than is common at other sites.

I was a participant in the thread you referred to, and I have to admit that I found your question confusing. I also disliked in particular your rejection of a valid (and standard) approach because it violates some unspecified “spirit” of the problem. Think of how irritating it is to an expert (not myself in that case) to answer a question based on sound principles and have that standard approach, accepted by professional statisticians, rejected out of hand.

I honestly felt like you were toying with us, and that is something that we don’t want our experts to feel. So yes, that can indeed be a valid reason to close a thread

 

[russ_watters]

If you want to contribute to a closed (either for you or for everybody) thread you can always ask that it be reopened. Arguing that it should be reopened because hypothetically someone else might eventually post something interesting/useful in it will not be very convincing; "I want to add <THIS> to the thread" is more convincing.

And even if the answer is still "no", there will often be a follow-up that "you may post that in your own, new thread if you like".

 

[davenn]

Post 1: if that moderator had seen the thread earlier, we'd have missed on DrZoidberg's very good post. Also, I don't get the reason for closing the thread - OP specified that he was looking for an algorithm, not pseudo-code or code in any specific language. What's the problem with that?

that's a rubbish statement !
That moderator was already active in the thread from an early time ... long before DrZ's post !

 

[Dale]

In the beginning, it took me some time to understand the rules

Thanks for this comment. Considering your personal experience, do you think there is something that we could have done to make the learning process easier for you?

 

[Tosh5457]

that's a rubbish statement !
That moderator was already active in the thread from an early time ... long before DrZ's post !

Excuse me, but yours is a rubbish statement that completely missed my point.

 

[davenn]

Excuse me, but yours is a rubbish statement that completely missed my point.

not at all, you made a false statement when trying to back up you assertions
If you are going to make statements blaming a moderator ( or anyone for that matter)
... then you have better get your facts correct

you stated ...

Post 1: if that moderator had seen the thread earlier, we'd have missed on DrZoidberg's very good post. Also, I don't get the reason for closing the thread

in fact he was the second and tenth poster

DrZ didn't post till #12

 

[Tom.G]

on top of it, the moderators are needlessly rude.

I realize at this point that everyone is piling on the OP, but unfortunately I too have noticed some (rare) indications of rudeness (not as a target, yet). So far I have just shaken my head and moved on. Every once in a while someone seems to be having a bad day and denigrates an OP, rather than requesting clarification. The frequency of occurence seems somewhat correlated to whether or not they are instructors in real life. Teaching must be stressful.

 

[Tosh5457]

not at all, you made a false statement when trying to back up you assertions
If you are going to make statements blaming a moderator ( or anyone for that matter)
... then you have better get your facts correct

you stated ...in fact he was the second and tenth poster

DrZ didn't post till #12

Yes I saw that he posted earlier, but obviously, he wouldn't close it on the 2nd post. I meant had he seen it earlier than DrZoidberg, after post #11, which was the post that triggered the thread closing. Jesus...

 

[Nugatory]

I too have noticed some (rare) indications of rudeness (not as a target, yet). So far I have just shaken my head and moved on

Can you report these instead? Clicking that "report" link involves different muscles than shaking your head, but the overall energy expenditure is no greater and there is substantial upside: if it's not reported we may not be aware of it at all, and we certainly won't be aware that it's negatively affecting at least one member.

The frequency of occurence seems somewhat correlated to whether or not they are instructors in real life.

Sisyphus is sometimes and understandably a bit short-tempered, yes. But we do routinely edit or delete away the counterproductive responses when we're aware of them - which (I hope) is why you find them to be rare. There's also a fine line between tough love and unnecessary harshness, and the feedback from the report mechanism is one of the things we use to draw that line.

 

[Nugatory]

Yes I saw that he posted earlier, but obviously, he wouldn't close it on the 2nd post. I meant had he seen it earlier than DrZoidberg, after post #11, which was the post that triggered the thread closing. Jesus...

Your understanding of the history is mistaken, presumably because you haven't seen the discussion among the mentors as well as the private messages we exchanged with the original poster before we decided that the thread had reached the point of diminishing returns.

It is not an accident that the thread was closed after DrZ's reply instead of before.

 

[Wrichik Basu]

Thanks for this comment. Considering your personal experience, do you think there is something that we could have done to make the learning process easier for you?

I don't think so you have to do anything more. I don't clearly remember what I was shown when I first joined PF, but I remember ignoring reading the rules and posting right away. Then someone told me through a PM (I don't remember who it was exactly, but I think it was @Borek) to go through the rules before posting. That was it. I corrected myself after that, and, of course, gathered a lot of experience on the way till date.

 

[bhobba]

Can you report these instead? Clicking that "report" link involves different muscles than shaking your head, but the overall energy expenditure is no greater and there is substantial upside: if it's not reported we may not be aware of it at all, and we certainly won't be aware that it's negatively affecting at least one member.

That's the real answer.

I tried to do this before being a mentor, but now I am a mentor I know its even more important than I thought. It's absolutely essential. All the mentors see every report and is discussed. We can only discuss and help resolve/improve things we know about. So please, please no sniping, etc etc - simply report it. At a minimum a mentor that is an expert in the area will then participate and/or keep an eye on it. It is by far the best way to improve the forum.

Thanks
Bill

 

[pinball1970]

That's the real answer.

I tried to do this before being a mentor, but now I am a mentor I know its even more important than I thought. It's absolutely essential. All the mentors see every report and is discussed. We can only discuss and help resolve/improve things we know about. So please, please no sniping, etc etc - simply report it. At a minimum a mentor that is an expert in the area will then participate and/or keep an eye on it. It is by far the best way to improve the forum.

Thanks
Bill

Agreed despite a few things that have not gone my way I think this is a great site.

The mentors do the job for free and we only see the tip of the iceberg.

 

[jedishrfu]

We’ve had some good discussion here, but I think pretty much covered all the issues and so it’s time to close the thread.

Thanks to all who contributed to the discussion.