Phase Change in Light: A & B Signal Reflections

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mechanics of phase change in light signal reflections as illustrated in an animation involving two points, A and B. Participants analyze the implications of the animation in the context of relativity, specifically addressing the synchronization of light signals and the effects of motion on their phase relationships. The scope includes theoretical considerations of relativity and the interpretation of signal emissions and reflections.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the validity of the animation, suggesting it does not accurately represent the relationship between the signals emitted from A and B, and emphasizes the need for Lorentz transformations.
  • Another participant asserts that if light signals are synchronized in one frame, they must remain synchronized in all frames, highlighting the invariance of light signal events.
  • Concerns are raised about the animation mixing concepts from Einstein's relativity and Galilean relativity, with a suggestion that it fails to account for length contraction.
  • Some participants argue that the animations are not comparing observations from different reference frames, asserting that both animations are relative to the same frame K.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of defining different scenarios for the emission of signals, with one participant arguing that changing the scenario does not reflect fundamental physics but merely alters the conditions of the experiment.
  • Another participant clarifies that the out-of-phase relationship of signals is not a problem but a result of the agreed timing when A and B are at rest relative to each other.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the interpretation of the animations and the implications of signal synchronization. Some participants believe the animations misrepresent the physics involved, while others defend the approach taken in the animation. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views on the relationship between the signals and the effects of motion.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the animation's representation of relativistic effects, particularly regarding synchronization and the treatment of different reference frames. There is also mention of the need for clarity in defining scenarios to avoid confusion about the underlying physics.

  • #31
AlMetis said:
When the observer in the middle of a moving train disagrees with the observer on the platform, on the simultaneity of two lightening strikes hitting the front and back of the train, it is because, as Einstein said, it takes longer for the light from the back of the train, than the light at the front of the train to reach the observer on the moving train if we choose to analyze the situation using coordinates in which the platform is at rest
The bolded addition is necessary, but even with that addition you are misunderstanding Einstein's position. Yes, it "it takes longer for the light from the back of the train, than the light at the front of the train to reach the observer on the moving train" when using the platform frame, and Einstein did correctly rely on that fact, but that's not Einstein's insight here.

Einstein's insight is that the most reasonable ("only sensible" would not be excessive hyperbole here) definition of "time a flash of light was emitted" is to subtract the light travel time from the arrival time to get the emission time, and that when using that most reasonable definition observers in relative motion to one another will not agree on the simultaneity of events.

The problem with describing the thought experiment as you have is that you have inadvertently privileged the platform observer - the "takes longer" explanation loses the equally reasonable analysis that says both light signals covered the same distance but were emitted at different times.
 
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  • #32
With @Nugatory excellent comment, I think this is a good time to close this thread.

Thank you all for participating here.

Jedi
 
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