Phase space of a harmonic oscillator and a pendulum

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around obtaining the phase space representations for a harmonic oscillator and a varying-mass pendulum using canonical transformations. Participants are exploring the relationships between the original coordinates and momenta (q, p) and the new coordinates and momenta (Q, P), as well as the Hamiltonian formulations for both systems.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to derive the phase space for both the harmonic oscillator and the pendulum but expresses uncertainty about the process. Some participants question the definitions and transformations needed to express Q and P in terms of q and p. Others discuss the mathematical representation of phase space and the implications of the canonical transformations.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, sharing equations and transformations. There is a mix of attempts to clarify the relationships between variables and to understand the implications of the transformations on the Hamiltonian. Some guidance has been offered regarding the mathematical structure of phase space, but there is no explicit consensus on the next steps or the correctness of the approaches taken.

Contextual Notes

There are indications of missing information regarding the specific forms of Q and P, as well as the assumptions underlying the equations of motion for the pendulum. The original poster also notes a lack of clarity on how to visualize the phase space effectively.

DannyJ108
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Homework Statement
Draw the phase space in new canonical coordinates and the phase space of a single varying mass pendulum
Relevant Equations
H=p^2/2m+(1/2)kx^2
Hello everybody, new here. Sorry in advance if I didn't follow a specific guideline to ask this.

Anyways, I've got as a homework assignment two cannonical transformations (q,p)-->(Q,P). I have to obtain the hamiltonian of a harmonic oscillator, and then the new coordinates and the hamiltonian as a function of them (which is done correctly, I think).

I have to obtain the phase space in (Q,P) of this oscillator, but I have no idea how to. My question is how do I proceed to do so?

Also, another exercise I have is to obtain the solution to the equations of motion for a single varying-mass pendulum assuming small oscillations (sinx = x). I've proceeded introducing the rocket equation into the eq. of motion I've got, but I don't know if this is the correct way to do so. I have to obtain the phase space of this pendulum too, but no idea how to.

I would appreciate any help I can get regarding this, it would be extremely helpful.

Thanks fellow physicists.
 
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DannyJ108 said:
Homework Statement:: Draw the phase space in new canonical coordinates and the phase space of a single varying mass pendulum
Relevant Equations:: H=p^2/2m+(1/2)kx^2

Anyways, I've got as a homework assignment two cannonical transformations (q,p)-->(Q,P).
Here I cannot find what Q and P are as function of normal coordinate q and momentum p.
 
anuttarasammyak said:
Here I cannot find what Q and P are as function of normal coordinate q and momentum p.
True. Sorry about that.
##q = \sqrt{2P}A^{-1/4}\ sinQ##
##p = \sqrt{2P}A^{1/4}\ cosQ##
Also, I have to apply this transformation to the Hamiltonian using
##A = Km##
The resulting Hamiltonian I get is:
##H = \omega P## being ##\omega = \sqrt \frac K m##
But as I said, I don't know how to represent the phase space in Q,P
 
In mathematics xy plane can be divided by cells of area ##dx\ dy## or in other way by ##r\ dr\ d\phi##.
Drawing r##\phi## rectangle plane, ##\phi## is limited in [0,2##\pi##] and r is half limited in [0,+##\infty##]. Area of rectangle cells ##dr\ d\phi## are not just the product but proportional to the value of r.

In phase space here p, q corresponds to the former, P,Q corresponds to the latter where P to r and Q to ##\phi##.
 
Last edited:
anuttarasammyak said:
In mathematics xy plane can be divided by cells of area ##dx\ dy## or in other way by ##r\ dr\ d\phi##.
Drawing r##\phi## rectangle plane, ##\phi## is limited in [0,2##\pi##] and r is half limited in [0,+##\infty##]. Area of rectangle cells ##dr\ d\phi## are not just the product but proportional to the value of r.

In phase space here p, q corresponds to the former, P,Q corresponds to the latter where P to r and Q to ##\phi##.
Okay, but how do I proceed to get the equations of phase space? What variables do I need to group in order to know what to draw?
Also, would you know if the procedure I mentioned for the pendulum are correct?
 
What do you mean by "the equations of phase space" ? Show them for original p and q to get the precise idea SVP.
 

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