Pigeonhole principle and counting

  • Thread starter Thread starter TalonStriker
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Counting Principle
Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the application of the pigeonhole principle to two mathematical problems. The first problem requires finding the smallest integer Y such that 100 of the 5-element subsets of {1, ..., Y} share the same sum. The second problem asserts that the set of all functions from natural numbers (N) to natural numbers (N) is uncountable, despite the countability of N itself. Participants clarify that while individual natural numbers are countable, the vast number of functions mapping N to N cannot be enumerated.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of the pigeonhole principle
  • Familiarity with set theory and countability
  • Basic knowledge of functions and mappings in mathematics
  • Experience with combinatorial problems
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the pigeonhole principle and its applications in combinatorics
  • Explore the concept of countable vs. uncountable sets in set theory
  • Study the properties of functions, particularly in relation to cardinality
  • Investigate examples of uncountable sets, such as the power set of natural numbers
USEFUL FOR

Mathematicians, students studying discrete mathematics, and anyone interested in combinatorial theory and set theory concepts.

TalonStriker
Messages
14
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement


1) 100 of the 5-element subsets of {1, . . . , Y } have the same SUM. (Fill in Y . Make Y as small as you can, however you need NOT prove that it is smallest possible. You might
need a calculator.)

2) Let FUNC be the set of all FUNCTIONS from N to N. Show that FUNC is NOT countable.

Homework Equations


Pigeonhole principle.


The Attempt at a Solution


1) The only thing I know is that I need to apply pigeonhole principle... Can someone give me a nudge?
2) Definitely confused here. Since the integers are countable, the naturals must be countable too right? THen how the heck are I supposed to show that FUNC isn't countable when it is?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
a) Can you venture a guess as to what the pigeons and holes are?b)
Natural numbers are countable, but that does not mean that all functions on N are countable. There are definitely an infinite number of functions mapping N to N, and there is no way to write them such that they could be counted.

The set of all rational numbers is countable, even though there is an infinite gap between any two rational numbers. If the all the rational numbers were written in an \infty X \infty array, they could be counted by the diagonals. No such rule exists for functions over N.
 

Similar threads

Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
23
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
6K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K