Polarity and distribution coefficient

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the polarity of three compounds—benzoic acid, succinic acid, and sodium benzoate—and their relationship to distribution coefficients in dichloromethane (Ch2Cl2) and water (H2O). The scope includes theoretical considerations of polarity and its implications for solubility and extraction processes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes an order of polarity for the three compounds: sodium benzoate, succinic acid, and benzoic acid, but expresses uncertainty about this ranking.
  • Another participant questions whether succinic acid has an overall dipole moment.
  • A subsequent reply indicates that there is no overall dipole moment for succinic acid, followed by another confirming this absence.
  • There is a query about whether benzoic acid has an overall polarity or dipole moment.
  • A later response asserts that all three compounds have a dipole moment, with benzoic acid having the smallest due to having only one hydroxyl group for hydrogen bonding, while succinic acid has two and sodium benzoate can form ionic bonds.
  • One participant suggests correlating polarity with solubility data and mentions the relevance to liquid-liquid extraction, while also apologizing for any perceived irrelevance to the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the polarity and dipole moments of the compounds, with no consensus reached on the order of polarity or the implications for distribution coefficients.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the overall dipole moments of the compounds and the assumptions underlying the proposed order of polarity. The discussion also touches on the relevance of solubility data to the topic of liquid-liquid extraction.

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I need to determine polarity of 3 compounds in order to intuit the relationship between their distribution coefficients in Ch2Cl2 and H20.

The three compounds are benzoic acid (with a carboxyl group on a benzene ring), succinic acid (a straight chain with 2 terminal carboxyl groups), and sodium benzoate (and ionic carboxyl group on a bezene ring). I think the order is sodium benzoate (ionic) then succinic acid (no benzene ring) then benzoic acid in decreasing polarity. But I'm not certain. Can anyone comment?

Thanks~
 
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Does the succinic acid have an overall dipole moment?
 
dipole moment

there is no overall diploe moment mentioned.
thanks for responding.
 
no dipole moment either. whoops.
 
Would you say that benzoic acid has an overall polarity, a dipole moment?
 
ok. yes, all three have a dipole moment. benzoic acid's is the smallest as it has only one OH group to H-bond with. Succinic acid has 2 OH groups to H-bond with, and the sodium benzoate can form ionic bonds, trumping the other two.
 
Yes, you can correlate such matters with the solubility data which can be found on http://www.chemfinder.com, it took me a while to realize that all of this was pertinent to the topic of liquid-liquid extraction, I apologize for being so irrelevant.
 

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