Polymer Modelling for Carbon, Nitrogen, Oxygen

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    Modelling Polymer
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SUMMARY

This discussion focuses on the challenges of modeling polymers composed of carbon, nitrogen, and oxygen using a semi-classical approach. The author aims to approximate bond lengths and angles classically while treating dihedral angles quantum mechanically, specifically under varying pH conditions. Key points include the need to understand the conformational pathways during environmental changes, the probability density function for dihedral angles, and the derivation of physical observables that can be experimentally validated. The consensus is that combining classical and quantum mechanical treatments is generally not acceptable, and Quantum Mechanics/Molecular Mechanics (QM/MM) methods are recommended for discrete molecular parts.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of semi-classical modeling techniques
  • Familiarity with Quantum Mechanics/Molecular Mechanics (QM/MM) methods
  • Knowledge of polymer chemistry and behavior under varying pH
  • Experience with experimental validation techniques such as NMR and Small Angle X-ray Scattering
NEXT STEPS
  • Research QM/MM methods for polymer modeling
  • Explore conventional force-field methods, particularly AMBER for polymers
  • Study the implications of dihedral angle probability density functions in polymer dynamics
  • Investigate the conditions under which quantum effects become negligible in polymer systems
USEFUL FOR

Chemists, materials scientists, and researchers involved in polymer modeling, particularly those interested in the interplay between classical and quantum mechanical approaches in computational chemistry.

exmachina
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Hi PF,I'm working on a semi-classical model for a group of rather strange polymers based on carbon, nitrogen, and oxygen. In this treatment, I'm approximating the bond length and bond angle to be more or less classical (ie. ball and stick). But I would also like to treat the dihedral angles quantum mechanically. But quantum mechanically, I mean that the rotations aobut dihedral angles can simultaneously be in different states, governed by some probability density p(theta). So I want to subject the model to the following experiment:

Initial environment:

Low pH, the polymer is a linear chain and unstable (ie. there are a huge degree of accessible microstates)

Final environment:

Neutral pH, the polymer is compact (ie. one or two microstates represent the ensemble average far better than all other microstates)

Three things:
1) I want to know the pathway, ie. the conformations that my model samples through when the environment changes from initial to final.
2) I want to know the details of p(theta), ie. the probability density function for each angle.
3) I want to know what physical observables I can derive from this model that I can match with experiments (eg. NMR, Small Angle Xray Scattering, etc.)

And most importantly, is it even OK to combine classical and QM treatments like this. Also, when do quantum effects vanish? IE. I know it's generally restricted to things on a Planck's constant, but then people started reporting things like buckyball having interference effects.
 
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In short, no, you can't combine quantum mechanical and 'classical' treatments like that.
The energy isn't separable into dihedral/angle/bond distance components classically even.

There are QM/MM methods that combine both types of models, but then they do so for discrete parts of the molecule (and the 'cut' needs to be carefully chosen). What is it you want to do that can't be done with conventional force-field methods, such as http://ambermd.org/" ? They're used for polymers all the time.
 
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