Position as a function of time through a varying gravitational field

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the problem of determining the position of an object as a function of time while moving through a varying gravitational field. Participants explore the mathematical formulation of the problem, including differential equations and potential solutions, without reaching a consensus on the correct approach or solution.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the equations x=1/2at^2 and a=gmm/(r-x)^2, expressing uncertainty about solving them due to a lack of differential equations knowledge.
  • Another participant clarifies that one object is stationary, suggesting that the acceleration becomes infinite as x approaches r.
  • Multiple participants challenge the initial equations, stating that they are only valid for constant acceleration and propose the equation d²x/dt² = -g/x² as a more appropriate formulation.
  • A proposed solution of x = bt^(2/3) is identified as a parabolic escape solution, with a need for an elliptical solution instead.
  • One participant introduces a method using the chain rule to derive a separable ordinary differential equation (ODE) for (dx/dt)² as a function of x.
  • Another participant notes that while the integral derived from the equation v² = 2g/x+c is separable, it is complex to compute.
  • Concerns are raised about the validity of simplifying the problem by shifting the origin, with one participant expressing skepticism about its impact on the setup.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of the initial equations and the appropriateness of shifting the origin. There is no consensus on the correct approach to solving the problem, and multiple competing views remain throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations in their understanding of differential equations and the complexity of the integrals involved. The discussion reflects a range of assumptions about the nature of the gravitational field and the mathematical techniques applicable to the problem.

JJfortherear
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I've been trying to figure this out for a while, since my first semester of physics ended. It's not a homework problem, just something I've been doing for fun. I've spoken with a few people about it and they all say it's just a diff. equation but they can't remember how to solve it, and, unfortunately, I haven't taken diff. equations yet. So the furthest I get is:

x=1/2at^2
a=gmm/(r-x)^2

so plug in a to the first eq. The r-x is the initial radius minus the distance x traveled due to acceleration.

I'm sure this case has been extensively closed, but I just stumbled upon this website and I could find no solution to this problem anywhere else (could just ask one of my soon to be physics professors, but I'd rather know now). Thanks.
 
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just wanted to clarify, one object is considered stationary (mass of something like a planet, but considered as a point, so x approaches r and the acceleration becomes infinite). I'm just looking for how to solve the two equations for x (and i realize that should be gm not gmm for acceleration)
 
Your first equation is wrong. It's only valid for constant a, which is not the case. It should read d²x/dt² = a. And your second equation is greatly simplified if you shift your x variable to be relative to origin. That way, the equation you are trying to solve is this.

d²x/dt² = -g/x²

I found a solution, which is x = bt^(2/3), but it is obviously the parabolic escape solution, and you need an elliptical one. I'll keep thinking.
 
K^2 said:
Your first equation is wrong. It's only valid for constant a, which is not the case. It should read d²x/dt² = a. And your second equation is greatly simplified if you shift your x variable to be relative to origin. That way, the equation you are trying to solve is this.

d²x/dt² = -g/x²

I found a solution, which is x = bt^(2/3), but it is obviously the parabolic escape solution, and you need an elliptical one. I'll keep thinking.

There's a clever trick to solving this type of ODE, just make use of the chain rule by noticing

\frac{d^2 x}{dt^2}=\frac{d}{dt}\left(\frac{dx}{dt}\right)=\frac{dx}{dt}\frac{d}{dx}\left(\frac{dx}{dt}\right)=\frac{1}{2}\frac{d}{dx}\left(\frac{dx}{dt}\right)^2

This gives you a very simple separable ODE for \left(\frac{dx}{dt}\right)^2 as a function of x.

\frac{d}{dx}\left(\frac{dx}{dt}\right)^2=-\frac{2g}{x^2}
 
Huh. That is nifty.

v² = 2g/x+c

Not that much improvement, though... Separable, but the integral for it is NOT pretty.

Edit: I think it might be easier to start with Kepler's laws and take the limit of angular momentum going to zero.
 
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The integral is readily computed and can also be looked up in a table of integrals.
 
is it really possible to simplify the distance by moving the origin? I've thought about it and any time I try it seems to change the setup.
 

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