Is There a Difference Between Positive and Negative Charge Light?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the differences, if any, between light produced by positive and negative charges, particularly focusing on oscillating electrons and protons. Participants explore the nature of electromagnetic radiation, its properties, and the implications of charge polarity on the emitted light.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether there is a difference in the electromagnetic radiation produced by oscillating electrons versus oscillating protons, particularly if they oscillate at the same frequency.
  • One participant suggests that electron radiation would repel other electrons, while proton radiation would repel other protons, though this is challenged by others.
  • Another participant argues that the electromagnetic field generated from oscillating charges vibrating at the same rate would be the same and that it wouldn't repel like charges as it is not an electrostatic field.
  • There is a discussion about the alternating nature of electric and magnetic forces in electromagnetic waves, with some participants seeking clarification on how this affects the forces experienced by charges.
  • One participant proposes that the only difference between light produced by electrons and protons is the starting force polarity, which is affirmed by another participant.
  • Another participant introduces the analogy of a radio transmitting antenna to explain that the polarity of moving charges does not affect the nature of the electromagnetic waves produced.
  • There is a suggestion that if both charges were in the same location and oscillating with the same frequency, their waves would be out of phase.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the light produced by positive and negative charges is fundamentally different, with some arguing for similarities and others for differences based on charge polarity. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these differences.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference concepts such as electromagnetic fields, oscillation, and phase differences without reaching a consensus on the implications of charge polarity on the nature of emitted light.

k9b4
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Is there any difference between light produced by a positive charge and light produced by a negative charge?
 
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jedishrfu said:
what particles are you thinking of?
If I have an oscillating electron, and an oscillating proton, oscillating at exactly the same frequency, is there any difference between the electromagnetic radiation produced by these charges?

I imagine the electron radiation would repel other electrons, and the proton radiation would repel other protons?
 
Is this a homework assignment? If so then what do you think?
 
jedishrfu said:
Is this a homework assignment? If so then what do you think?
This is not a homework assignment.

I think the electron radiation would repel other electrons, and the proton radiation would repel other protons?
 
The electromagnetic field generated from the oscillating charges vibrating at the same rate would be the same.

It wouldn't repel other like charges like you're thinking, it's not an electrostatic field.
 
jedishrfu said:
The electromagnetic field generated from the oscillating charges vibrating at the same rate would be the same.

It wouldn't repel other like charges like you're thinking, it's not an electrostatic field.
Why wouldn't it?

Electromagnetic radiation contains an electric field. Electric field causes force on charged particles. Why does the electric field in electromagnetic radiation not repel and attract like other electric fields?
 
k9b4 said:
This is not a homework assignment.

I think the electron radiation would repel other electrons, and the proton radiation would repel other protons?

That's not how EM waves work. EM waves are oscillations of the EM field vectors, meaning that the forces alternates from + to - and back in a direction that is perpendicular to the direction of propagation.
 
Drakkith said:
the forces alternates from + to -
What does this part mean? What force alternates?
 
  • #10
k9b4 said:
What does this part mean? What force alternates?

The electric and magnetic forces alternate polarity (directions). If we use arrows to represent the forces, then the arrows will flip from one direction, to the opposite direction, and then back to the original direction once per cycle.
 
  • #11
Drakkith said:
The electric and magnetic forces alternate polarity (directions). If we use arrows to represent the forces, then the arrows will flip from one direction, to the opposite direction, and then back to the original direction once per cycle.
Hmmm okay.

So the only difference between electron light and proton light is the starting force polarity? One will start negative and the other positive?
 
  • #12
k9b4 said:
Hmmm okay.

So the only difference between electron light and proton light is the starting force polarity? One will start negative and the other positive?

I believe that is correct.
 
  • #13
Drakkith said:
I believe that is correct.
Cool thanks for explaining
 
  • #14
You could consider a source of EM radiation in terms of a radio transmitting antenna (and everything can scale, if you could get hold of a suitable 'transmitter' for light). The fields produced and the resulting radiated EM waves can be predicted by merely thinking of the currents sloshing up and down in the wire. This current is normally composed of moving electrons but it needn't be; no one worries about that in Antenna Theory. Point is that polarity of the moving charges doesn't have any bearing on the nature of the EM waves produced - it's just a Current. If you wanted to relate the radiated fields to the 'movement' involved, there would just be a 180 degree phase difference for the different polarities of the charge carriers.
 
  • #15
sophiecentaur said:
You could consider a source of EM radiation in terms of a radio transmitting antenna (and everything can scale, if you could get hold of a suitable 'transmitter' for light). The fields produced and the resulting radiated EM waves can be predicted by merely thinking of the currents sloshing up and down in the wire. This current is normally composed of moving electrons but it needn't be; no one worries about that in Antenna Theory. Point is that polarity of the moving charges doesn't have any bearing on the nature of the EM waves produced - it's just a Current. If you wanted to relate the radiated fields to the 'movement' involved, there would just be a 180 degree phase difference for the different polarities of the charge carriers.
To clarify - when the electric field vector points 'upwards', that means that a positive charge at that particular point will experience a force in the upwards direction?

So that means that electron light and proton light originating from exactly the same point and with exactly the same frequency will affect a charge some distance away in exactly the same way - except that the charge being affected will be 'up' for the electron light and 'down' for the proton light (or vice versa)?
 
Last edited:
  • #16
k9b4 said:
To clarify - when the electric field vector points 'upwards', that means that a positive charge at that particular point will experience a force in the upwards direction?

So that means that electron light and proton light originating from exactly the same point and with exactly the same frequency will affect a charge some distance away in exactly the same way - except that the charge being affected will be 'up' for the electron light and 'down' for the proton light (or vice versa)?
You would have no way of knowing what produced the wave, once it's been launched. There is only one kind of E field and H field.
You would be more likely to have success with Positrons in Anti Hydrogen atoms. I wonder if it's been done? Yes - it looks like it has.
 
  • #17
sophiecentaur said:
You would have no way of knowing what produced the wave, once it's been launched. There is only one kind of E field and H field.
You would be more likely to have success with Positrons in Anti Hydrogen atoms. I wonder if it's been done? Yes - it looks like it has.
But if (theoretically) both charges were in the same spot, and oscillating with the same frequency, their waves would be perfectly out of phase - right?
 
  • #18
They would both be modeled as precisely the same Current, but in anti phase, so - yes.
 

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