Potential Energy vs. Position Graph

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the characteristics of equilibrium points in potential energy vs. position graphs, specifically focusing on the nature of relative minima and their classification as stable, unstable, or neutral equilibrium points. Participants also explore concepts related to kinetic energy in equilibrium states and the implications of the slope of the potential energy graph as force.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether a relative minimum in a potential energy graph always corresponds to a stable equilibrium, seeking clarification on the definitions of stable, unstable, and neutral equilibrium points.
  • Others discuss the concept of asymptotic stability as mentioned in an article, with varying interpretations of its meaning in the context of equilibrium.
  • A participant suggests that stable equilibrium is characterized by a ball remaining in a valley unless disturbed strongly, while another notes that kinetic energy can exist in stable equilibrium, raising questions about the conditions under which this occurs.
  • There is a discussion about the relationship between the slope of the potential energy graph and force, with inquiries into why the force must be the negative of the slope.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between relative minima and stable equilibrium, as well as the role of kinetic energy in stable states. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the definitions and implications of these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge that stable equilibrium typically assumes low or negligible kinetic energy, but they also explore scenarios where kinetic energy is present, leading to further questions about the nature of equilibrium.

Bashyboy
Messages
1,419
Reaction score
5
I attached a graph of a potential energy vs. position graph. My question is, the relative minimum is characterized as a equilibrium point, but what is, specifically, is this type of equilibrium point--a stable, unstable, or neutral one?
 

Attachments

  • Scan_Pic0002.jpg
    Scan_Pic0002.jpg
    19.1 KB · Views: 1,027
Physics news on Phys.org
I am reading this article, http://home.comcast.net/~sharov/PopEcol/lec9/equilib.html , regarding potential energy and equilibrium, and I am rather bewildered by the article's use of the word asymptote. The sentence containing it is, "An equilibrium is considered stable (for simplicity we will consider asymptotic stability only)..." I tried to look up the word in the dictionary, but it came up with only the mathematical definition. What do they mean by asymptotic stability?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Bashyboy said:
I attached a graph of a potential energy vs. position graph. My question is, the relative minimum is characterized as a equilibrium point, but what is, specifically, is this type of equilibrium point--a stable, unstable, or neutral one?

Stable - if you were to set a ball there it would tend to stay there unless disturbed strongly enough to push it "out of the valley".
 
Bashyboy said:
I am reading this article, http://home.comcast.net/~sharov/PopEcol/lec9/equilib.html , regarding potential energy and equilibrium, and I am rather bewildered by the article's use of the word asymptote. The sentence containing it is, "An equilibrium is considered stable (for simplicity we will consider asymptotic stability only)..." I tried to look up the word in the dictionary, but it came up with only the mathematical definition. What do they mean by asymptotic stability?

In this context, asymptotic stability means that if you drop a little ball into the "valley", it will roll back and forth around the bottom for a while before it comes to rest at the bottom.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
So, does a relative minimum always correspond to a stable equilibrium? At this point, the system possesses kinetic energy and potential energy, but that seems odd. Could you give me an example of a system that is in stable equilibrium that possesses kinetic energy and potential energy? Also, I understand that the slope of the potential energy vs. position graph is force, but why does it have to be the negative of the slope in order for it to be force?
 
Bashyboy said:
So, does a relative minimum always correspond to a stable equilibrium? At this point, the system possesses kinetic energy and potential energy, but that seems odd. Could you give me an example of a system that is in stable equilibrium that possesses kinetic energy and potential energy? Also, I understand that the slope of the potential energy vs. position graph is force, but why does it have to be the negative of the slope in order for it to be force?
In normal usage, stable equilibrium assumes there is little or no KE. If a body enters that position with significant KE, it might very well fail to stay there. But that does not alter the fact that it would have stayed there if the KE had been sufficiently small. If sufficiently small is still nonzero, it is a position of stable equilibrium.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
8K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 46 ·
2
Replies
46
Views
5K