Potential of a point at the z axis of the circular ring?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the electric potential at a point on the z-axis due to a thin circular ring located in the XoY plane. Participants explore different methods for deriving the potential, considering the ring's charge density and geometry.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes an attempt to find the electric field (E) first and then use it to calculate the potential (V), expressing concern about the complexity of the resulting integral.
  • Another participant suggests splitting the ring into infinitesimal rings to find the potential at the point (0,0,z), indicating that this approach could yield a differential function to integrate.
  • There is a mention of confusion regarding the use of variables in the potential calculation, particularly the mixing of z and r in the expressions for dV and dQ.
  • One participant claims to have found the correct answer using the second approach, asserting that the z dependence was indeed present in their calculations, contrary to another participant's initial findings.
  • Another participant expresses uncertainty about the correctness of their work and seeks validation from others regarding the integration process needed for a solution.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correctness of the initial approaches to the problem. While some express confidence in their methods, others highlight potential errors and confusion, indicating that multiple competing views remain.

Contextual Notes

Participants note missing assumptions and the need for clarity in variable usage, particularly regarding the integration limits and the definitions of charge density. The discussion reflects a range of mathematical approaches and interpretations without resolving the underlying uncertainties.

cdummie
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So i have a thin circular ring laying at the XoY plane, inner radius of the ring is a, outer is b, density of electricity is given by expression ρ=ρ0*b/r , where ρ0 is a constant and r ∈ (a,b). I have to find a potential of the point P with coordinates (0,0,z).I tried to do it two ways, but both of them seem wrong.

Firstly, i tried to first find E and then V since V=∫E*dl , but i ended up with E=ρ0*b*z/2ξ0∫dr/(z2+r2)3/2 , this seems wrong to me since in every other example i end up with, at most, integral with substitution, which this one isn't.

The other way i tried to do it is, since potential of the single contour gives the value of the potential dV=dQ/4πξ0r potential of the ring in this example would be V=ρ0b*ln(b/a)/2ε0

which makes no sense since there's no z in the solution, which would mean that distance between point and ring doesn't matter, which means that both of these are probably wrong.
 
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cdummie said:
So i have a thin circular ring laying at the XoY plane, inner radius of the ring is a, outer is b, density of electricity is given by expression ρ=ρ0*b/r , where ρ0 is a constant and r ∈ (a,b). I have to find a potential of the point P with coordinates (0,0,z).I tried to do it two ways, but both of them seem wrong.

Firstly, i tried to first find E and then V since V=∫E*dl , but i ended up with E=ρ0*b*z/2ξ0∫dr/(z2+r2)3/2 , this seems wrong to me since in every other example i end up with, at most, integral with substitution, which this one isn't.

The other way i tried to do it is, since potential of the single contour gives the value of the potential dV=dQ/4πξ0r potential of the ring in this example would be V=ρ0b*ln(b/a)/2ε0

which makes no sense since there's no z in the solution, which would mean that distance between point and ring doesn't matter, which means that both of these are probably wrong.
See if this helps..Split the ring into infinite rings of infinitesimal thickness,say,dx and let the radius of that ring be x. Try finding potential due to each ring at the given point (0,0,z),which is on the axis of the ring. You'll get a differential function in terms of x (z is constant). Integrate it between limits a and b. I don't know the exact calculations but I'll first do it myself and then I could be certain..:smile:
 
Hello CD, please use the template (equations are missing altogether) and show your workings -- what you ended up with doesn't help us in finding where - if at all - things went wrong.

First way: seems rather roundabout to do an integral of something you find with an integral instead of just doing the V integral ? Anyway, I don't see what you are doing to get what you ended up with and I sure miss a factor ##2\pi##. [edit] sorry, I see it now: canceled against ##1/(4\pi\epsilon_0)##

Other way: z is in r in your expression for dV, but you mix it up with the r you are using for dQ.

If stuck, Hyperphysics is always a good place to look. (ring of charge, disc of charge)
 
Last edited:
cdummie said:
So i have a thin circular ring laying at the XoY plane, inner radius of the ring is a, outer is b, density of electricity is given by expression ρ=ρ0*b/r , where ρ0 is a constant and r ∈ (a,b). I have to find a potential of the point P with coordinates (0,0,z).I tried to do it two ways, but both of them seem wrong.

Firstly, i tried to first find E and then V since V=∫E*dl , but i ended up with E=ρ0*b*z/2ξ0∫dr/(z2+r2)3/2 , this seems wrong to me since in every other example i end up with, at most, integral with substitution, which this one isn't.

The other way i tried to do it is, since potential of the single contour gives the value of the potential dV=dQ/4πξ0r potential of the ring in this example would be V=ρ0b*ln(b/a)/2ε0

which makes no sense since there's no z in the solution, which would mean that distance between point and ring doesn't matter, which means that both of these are probably wrong.
Yupp..I've got the answer..What I suggested seems to be your second approach where you said there's no z.. But I got z..I don't know what's missing in your 2nd approach,but your idea is right..Go ahead with it..:smile:
 
cnh1995 said:
Yupp..I've got the answer..What I suggested seems to be your second approach where you said there's no z.. But I got z..I don't know what's missing in your 2nd approach,but your idea is right..Go ahead with it..:smile:

Screenshot_1.png
 
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cnh1995 said:
Yupp..I've got the answer..What I suggested seems to be your second approach where you said there's no z.. But I got z..I don't know what's missing in your 2nd approach,but your idea is right..Go ahead with it..:smile:
Well, is my work correct, i mean do i only need to integrate it to get correct solution, or did i made a mistake?
 
cdummie said:
Well, is my work correct, i mean do i only need to integrate it to get correct solution, or did i made a mistake?
Seems correct to me..:smile:
 
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