Practice Test- Box sliding down a slope

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves a 30kg box on a 15° slope, where a person is trying to prevent the box from sliding down by applying a force. The discussion centers around calculating the minimum force required to keep the box stationary, considering the coefficient of static friction and the normal force.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the calculation of the normal force and its dependence on the incline, questioning the application of the formula N=mg. They explore the components of weight acting perpendicular to the slope and how to determine the maximum static friction. Some participants express uncertainty about their calculations and the reasoning behind their choices.

Discussion Status

There is ongoing exploration of the correct approach to finding the minimum force needed to keep the box stationary. Participants have provided guidance on calculating the normal force and the maximum static friction, while also questioning assumptions about the forces acting on the box. Multiple interpretations of the problem are being discussed.

Contextual Notes

Participants note discrepancies in the answer choices and express concerns about the correctness of their calculations. There is a focus on understanding the forces involved when no external force is applied to the box.

ammcl30
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1. A 30kg box is placed on a 15° slope and a person pushes on the box up the slope to keep it from sliding. If the coefficient of static friction is 0.15, what is the minimum force that the person must exert to keep the box in place?

Answer Choices:
A. 273N
B. 241N
C. 33.5 N
D. 64.7 N
E. 294 N

2. Fs≤μs*N
F=μ*N
N=mg <-----not sure about that because I know normal force changes depending on the situation but I think this applies here.

Also my teacher has us use g= 9.8 NOT 9.81
3. So first I calculated the normal force: N=mg -----> (30)(9.8) = 294 N
Then I put my normal force into the equation F=μ*N ------> (.15)(294)= 44.1 N
This was not one of the answer choices. However I recalled this equation : Fs≤μs*N.
Since I was solving for the force that was a minimum I assumed that out of my answer choices C. 33.5 N was correct because 33.5 ≤ 44.1 which was my calculated force. This turned out to be the correct answer on the answer sheet. However I feel that this was more of a guess that happened to be right rather than the correct way of doing this. Any help is appreciated!
 
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ammcl30 said:
N=mg <-----not sure about that because I know normal force changes depending on the situation but I think this applies here.
First step is to fix this value for normal force. The normal force would equal mg if the surface were horizontal, but it's not. What's the component of the weight perpendicular to the surface?

Once you have the correct normal force you can figure out the maximum value of static friction.

Next is to ask this question: If the person didn't push the box up the incline, what would happen and why?
 
Box pushed up an incline

Doc Al said:
First step is to fix this value for normal force. The normal force would equal mg if the surface were horizontal, but it's not. What's the component of the weight perpendicular to the surface?

Once you have the correct normal force you can figure out the maximum value of static friction.

Next is to ask this question: If the person didn't push the box up the incline, what would happen and why?

So the component would be (30)cos15= 28.97. Cosine because I defined the incline as the x direction.
 
ammcl30 said:
So the component would be (30)cos15= 28.97. Cosine because I defined the incline as the x direction.
Almost. You want mgcosθ, not just mcosθ.
 
Doc Al said:
Almost. You want mgcosθ, not just mcosθ.

Okay so my normal force would be : (30)(9.8)cos (15°) = 283.982
Then from this I would plug my normal force into F=μN?
 
ammcl30 said:
Okay so my normal force would be : (30)(9.8)cos (15°) = 283.982
Good.

Then from this I would plug my normal force into F=μN?
That would give you the maximum value of static friction.
 
Doc Al said:
Good.


That would give you the maximum value of static friction.

Okay so F= .15 * 283.98= 42.59 N of maximum static friction. Obviously I could just pick the correct answer at this point, but I'm sure there is a way to calculate the minimum force. My first reaction would be to calculate the F= μM because that would account for just the objects weight against the friction force and then I could subtract that from my maximum force to get minimum force. However that would give me 4.5 N which isn't enough to get me to the 33.5 N answer
 
ammcl30 said:
Okay so F= .15 * 283.98= 42.59 N of maximum static friction.
Good.

Obviously I could just pick the correct answer at this point, but I'm sure there is a way to calculate the minimum force.
Of course there is.

My first reaction would be to calculate the F= μM because that would account for just the objects weight against the friction force and then I could subtract that from my maximum force to get minimum force. However that would give me 4.5 N which isn't enough to get me to the 33.5 N answer
μM has no physical meaning. It's not even a force! (Wrong units, for one thing.)

Answer the question I asked earlier: If there were no person pushing the box up the incline, what would happen and why? (What force acts to push the box down the incline?)
 
Doc Al said:
Good.


Of course there is.


μM has no physical meaning. It's not even a force! (Wrong units, for one thing.)

Answer the question I asked earlier: If there were no person pushing the box up the incline, what would happen and why? (What force acts to push the box down the incline?)

If there was no person pushing the box up the incline then the box would slide down because there are no forces to act on it going up the ramp. The forces that push the box down would be gravity and static friction.
 
  • #10
ammcl30 said:
If there was no person pushing the box up the incline then the box would slide down because there are no forces to act on it going up the ramp. The forces that push the box down would be gravity and static friction.
Gravity acts to push the box down. Compare the component of the weight acting down the incline to the max static friction which is trying to prevent the box from sliding down.
 

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