Precalculus -- Updating my knowledge

[nycmathguy]

I have been going through the sections in my Ron Larson Precalculus textbook and find that at least for the first 5 or 6 chapters, I can answer a lot of the questions except for a few selective problems. I will post those problems moving forward. No sense in posting questions I already know how to solve.

You say?

 

[Vanadium 50]

You say?

What;s the point? You've made it clear you will do whatever you want to do no matter what we say.

 

[symbolipoint]

I have been going through the sections in my Ron Larson Precalculus textbook and find that at least for the first 5 or 6 chapters, I can answer a lot of the questions except for a few selective problems. I will post those problems moving forward. No sense in posting questions I already know how to solve.

You say?

I say, two points here:

• Do not blast us with several questions to get help. Give just one or two questions that give you trouble. Not more. (ideally, per section)
• A good Pre-Calculus book will typically have one or two review chapters which are condensed re-instruction of Algebra 1 & 2, before the MAIN PRE-CALCULUS TOPICS begin, so one should be careful about premature satisfaction in studying those review chapters.

 

[Frabjous]

find that at least for the first 5 or 6 chapters, I can answer a lot of the questions except for a few selective problems. I will post those problems moving forward.

It is 22 June. nycmathguy joined on 11 June. Yes, he has ruffled a few feathers, but he has also discovered that he is not ready for calculus and has apparently gotten into a precalculus groove so that he will only need help with a few problems per section.

That’s a lot of self discovery in 11 days.

 

[nycmathguy]

It is 22 June. nycmathguy joined on 11 June. Yes, he has ruffled a few feathers, but he has also discovered that he is not ready for calculus and has apparently gotten into a precalculus groove so that he will only need help with a few problems per section.

That’s a lot of self discovery in 11 days.

No need to be sarcastic. I will need help, lots of help with precalculus. There are so many questions per section for which there are no sample problems in the textbook. I will concentrate on those problems.

I earned an A minus in precalculus in the Spring 1993 semester at Lehman College. It was an elective course. Not bad for someone who did not major in mathematics. Now that I think about it, 1993 makes me feel old. At 56, I know beyond the shadow of doubt that life is like a passing shadow.

 

[nycmathguy]

I say, two points here:

• Do not blast us with several questions to get help. Give just one or two questions that give you trouble. Not more. (ideally, per section)
• A good Pre-Calculus book will typically have one or two review chapters which are condensed re-instruction of Algebra 1 & 2, before the MAIN PRE-CALCULUS TOPICS begin, so one should be careful about premature satisfaction in studying those review chapters.

Feel free to ignore my questions.

 

[nycmathguy]

What;s the point? You've made it clear you will do whatever you want to do no matter what we say.

If precalculus becomes overwhelmingly hard for me after just a few chapters, I will GLADLY return to algebra 1 or prealgebra for that matter. Happy?

 

[Frabjous]

No need to be sarcastic. I will need help, lots of help with precalculus. There are so many questions per section for which there are no sample problems in the textbook. I will concentrate on those problems.

I earned an A minus in precalculus in the Spring 1993 semester at Lehman College. It was an elective course. Not bad for someone who did not major in mathematics. Now that I think about it, 1993 makes me feel old. At 56, I know beyond the shadow of doubt that life is like a passing shadow.

I wasn’t being sarcastic. Changing your plans to match reality is impressive. You asked a ton of questions last week and now you are saying that you will need only help with “a few selective problems. ” You have gotten over a hump.

 

[Frabjous]

What do you do when

there are no sample problems in the textbook.

You need to struggle a little while with them. Write stuff down and see where it takes you. Even when you do not succeed and you come here with your questions, the struggle will have helped your learning.

 

[symbolipoint]

There are so many questions per section for which there are no sample problems in the textbook.

I have not honestly found nor seen that tenth edition of the Larson Pre-Calculus book, but to not have sample problems in such a book would be very strange.

 

[nycmathguy]

I have not honestly found nor seen that tenth edition of the Larson Pre-Calculus book, but to not have sample problems in such a book would be very strange.

See attachment.

 

[symbolipoint]

See attachment.

The attachment of just an image is off-the-point. I have not found that book in physical form to take the opportunity to open and read and examine the information in that book. One can form an assessment about a book when looking at the table of contents and viewing several of the pages in the book. I have done that with some books in repositories, libraries, and three such Pre-Calculus books which I bought and studied from.

 

[nycmathguy]

The attachment of just an image is off-the-point. I have not found that book in physical form to take the opportunity to open and read and examine the information in that book. One can form an assessment about a book when looking at the table of contents and viewing several of the pages in the book. I have done that with some books in repositories, libraries, and three such Pre-Calculus books which I bought and studied from.

Try amazon.com. You can find most of Ron Larson's textbooks there. It is a good book.

 

[symbolipoint]

Try amazon.com. You can find most of Ron Larson's textbooks there. It is a good book.

I bought a couple of mathematical textbooks from Amazon, many many years ago, but I will not buy the Larson's Precalculus , tenth edition book. I do not need it. Too much money to spend even if shipping were free; and only to check the book to figure how it is and how it is outlined. I have three other Pre-Calculus books to refer to when I need or want a review. One book I DO have is this one: Precalculus, A Graphing Approach, Larson, Hostetler, Edwards, copyright 1993, ISBN 0-669-28500-5. Cost was at most, $2 from a used book sale.

MEMBERS WHO ARE READING: In case anyone does have access to both books, the L,H,E. Precalculus book from 1993, and also the Larson Precalc. book 10th edition, how do they compare and how do they differ?

 

[symbolipoint]

It is a good book.

(The Larson's 10th ed. Precalc.)
I believe that, based on others which he authored that I have checked or used.

 

[nycmathguy]

I bought a couple of mathematical textbooks from Amazon, many many years ago, but I will not buy the Larson's Precalculus , tenth edition book. I do not need it. Too much money to spend even if shipping were free; and only to check the book to figure how it is and how it is outlined. I have three other Pre-Calculus books to refer to when I need or want a review. One book I DO have is this one: Precalculus, A Graphing Approach, Larson, Hostetler, Edwards, copyright 1993, ISBN 0-669-28500-5. Cost was at most, $2 from a used book sale.

MEMBERS WHO ARE READING: In case anyone does have access to both books, the L,H,E. Precalculus book from 1993, and also the Larson Precalc. book 10th edition, how do they compare and how do they differ?

In my opinion, the hardest precalculus textbook that I have ever seen is the David Cohen Precalculus With Unit Circle Trigonometry 3rd Edition. It is insanely hard. The fourth edition is probably the same as the third edition. It is slightly updated. You must get this book. It is amazingly hard.

See attachment.

 

[bhobba]

Just a comment. If you are finding precalculus hard, go for a book that does both together, e.g. my personal favourite (although I would have done it a bit differently):
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0471827223/?tag=pfamazon01-20

I, for example, would use more elegant methods such as the following for deriving the trigonometric function relations and their derivatives:
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/simple-derivation-of-eulers-formula-and-applications.1002106/

But that is just me - the above book is still good. BTW it is how I learned calculus. Not from that book, but a similar one many, many moons ago when I was 13 or 14 - forget which. I got cocky and slacked off as far as math went in my final years of HS. I did OK but not great.

Actually, at 56 you should be able to do that book rather quickly.

Thanks
Bill

 

[bhobba]

It is amazingly hard.

I know some like a challenge. But my view in studying math is to take it easy. One easy bit at a time. The calculus book I suggested is 'easy'. After that, you can do Boaz:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0471198269/?tag=pfamazon01-20

Or if it has inspired you to do some pure (or is that puerile math - sorry sick math joke), the following is simply superb:
http://matrixeditions.com/

Personally, I would do both. But take your time - it is not a race.

Thanks
Bill

 

[nycmathguy]

Just a comment. If you are finding precalculus hard, go for a book that does both together, e.g. my personal favourite (although I would have done it a bit differently):
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0471827223/?tag=pfamazon01-20

I, for example, would use more elegant methods such as the following for deriving the trigonometric function relations and their derivatives:
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/simple-derivation-of-eulers-formula-and-applications.1002106/

But that is just me - the above book is still good. BTW it is how I learned calculus. Not from that book, but a similar one many, many moons ago when I was 13 or 14 - forget which. I got cocky and slacked off as far as math went in my final years of HS. I did OK but not great.

Actually, at 56 you should be able to do that book rather quickly.

Thanks
Bill

I thank you for the link and for sharing your story.

 

[MidgetDwarf]

I bought a couple of mathematical textbooks from Amazon, many many years ago, but I will not buy the Larson's Precalculus , tenth edition book. I do not need it. Too much money to spend even if shipping were free; and only to check the book to figure how it is and how it is outlined. I have three other Pre-Calculus books to refer to when I need or want a review. One book I DO have is this one: Precalculus, A Graphing Approach, Larson, Hostetler, Edwards, copyright 1993, ISBN 0-669-28500-5. Cost was at most, $2 from a used book sale.

MEMBERS WHO ARE READING: In case anyone does have access to both books, the L,H,E. Precalculus book from 1993, and also the Larson Precalc. book 10th edition, how do they compare and how do they differ?

For what its worth. I have TA precalculus for 5 years now. From seeing and helping students with there work.
I would say that the most informative books I have seen are : Cohen: Pre-Calculus, Axler: Pre-Calculus, Simmons. These are different than the run of the mill books like Larson and its ilk. Nothing wrong with Larson, but it does not separate itself from the other pre-calculus books.

If you have Cohen, that should be enough. If you have issues reading Cohen, that that means you have an issue with Algebra, and should maybe refer to an Intermediate Algebra, or even an Elementary Algebra book.

Granted, some of the problems in Cohen are a bit difficult, but with careful re-reading and understanding of the material. Then a student should be able to work it out...

The only issue I have with Axler is that the conic section is very weak. Something that maybe can be corrected in the next edition.

 

[nycmathguy]

For what its worth. I have TA precalculus for 5 years now. From seeing and helping students with there work.
I would say that the most informative books I have seen are : Cohen: Pre-Calculus, Axler: Pre-Calculus, Simmons. These are different than the run of the mill books like Larson and its ilk. Nothing wrong with Larson, but it does not separate itself from the other pre-calculus books.

If you have Cohen, that should be enough. If you have issues reading Cohen, that that means you have an issue with Algebra, and should maybe refer to an Intermediate Algebra, or even an Elementary Algebra book.

Granted, some of the problems in Cohen are a bit difficult, but with careful re-reading and understanding of the material. Then a student should be able to work it out...

The only issue I have with Axler is that the conic section is very weak. Something that maybe can be corrected in the next edition.

David Cohen's Precalculus With Unit-Circle Trigonometry 3rd Edition is the hardest precalculus book I have ever seen.

 

[nycmathguy]

For what its worth. I have TA precalculus for 5 years now. From seeing and helping students with there work.
I would say that the most informative books I have seen are : Cohen: Pre-Calculus, Axler: Pre-Calculus, Simmons. These are different than the run of the mill books like Larson and its ilk. Nothing wrong with Larson, but it does not separate itself from the other pre-calculus books.

If you have Cohen, that should be enough. If you have issues reading Cohen, that that means you have an issue with Algebra, and should maybe refer to an Intermediate Algebra, or even an Elementary Algebra book.

Granted, some of the problems in Cohen are a bit difficult, but with careful re-reading and understanding of the material. Then a student should be able to work it out...

The only issue I have with Axler is that the conic section is very weak. Something that maybe can be corrected in the next edition.

https://senate.universityofcalifornia.edu/_files/inmemoriam/html/DavidCohen.htm

 

[fresh_42]

Well, I don't really want to throw in another confusing comment, but I think the OpenStax books are appropriate: https://openstax.org/subjects

They are conceived for situations like ours, i.e. to provide a common base for students who begin with higher math. They are meant to gather all different levels of high school stuff and build a fundament for college; and they have the advantage that we all can access them (for free) if necessary.

 

[nycmathguy]

Well, I don't really want to throw in another confusing comment, but I think the OpenStax books are appropriate: https://openstax.org/subjects

They are conceived for situations like ours, i.e. to provide a common base for students who begin with higher math. They are meant to gather all different levels of high school stuff and build a fundament for college; and they have the advantage that we all can access them (for free) if necessary.

Thank you. Good to know.

 

[Muu9]

I bought a couple of mathematical textbooks from Amazon, many many years ago, but I will not buy the Larson's Precalculus , tenth edition book. I do not need it. Too much money to spend even if shipping were free; and only to check the book to figure how it is and how it is outlined. I have three other Pre-Calculus books to refer to when I need or want a review. One book I DO have is this one: Precalculus, A Graphing Approach, Larson, Hostetler, Edwards, copyright 1993, ISBN 0-669-28500-5. Cost was at most, $2 from a used book sale.

MEMBERS WHO ARE READING: In case anyone does have access to both books, the L,H,E. Precalculus book from 1993, and also the Larson Precalc. book 10th edition, how do they compare and how do they differ?

The oldest edition I could find of the LHE was the 5th edition from 2008. Compared to the 10th edition of Larson precalculus, it has a chapter P on prerequisites and a chapter dedicated to solving inequalities which the Larson does not, however the Larson 10E has one chapter dedicated to Systems of Equations and Inequalities and the next for Matrices and Determinants, while LHE 5th edition combines them into a single chapter which contains all the Larson M&D material along with a bit more on linear programming. The LHE has 100 more pages overall.

Fun fact: there is a third book titled "Precalculus functions and graphs : a graphing approach", which is different from Precalculus: a graphing approach.