Primes, pigeon holes, modular arithmetic

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem involving primes, the pigeonhole principle, and modular arithmetic. The original poster expresses uncertainty about how to approach the problem, which appears to involve infinite sets and inequalities related to natural numbers.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the applicability of the pigeonhole principle in the context of potentially infinite sets. There is a focus on understanding the constraints of the sets involved and how they relate to the problem at hand. One participant attempts to derive a relationship involving squares and modular arithmetic.

Discussion Status

Some participants are exploring the implications of the pigeonhole principle and its limitations regarding infinite sets. There is an ongoing examination of the mathematical relationships and inequalities presented, with one participant expressing a need to clarify the implications of a specific case involving modular arithmetic.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the pigeonhole principle can only be applied if the set in question is finite, which raises questions about the assumptions made in the problem. There is also mention of specific bounds related to the variables involved, indicating a focus on the constraints of the problem.

HmBe
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Homework Statement



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The Attempt at a Solution



Don't have a clue how to even start this one, sorry.
 
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I don't have much time to help with this one. Do you recall what the pigeonhole principle states?

The n elements of a set get mapped to n-1 elements of another set, so no matter what, there are elements ai and aj which get mapped to the same element or the same 'hole'.
 
Yeah I'm happy with the pigeon hole principle, although I can't quite see how it applies as a can be any natural number or 0, so surely the size of set A is infinite?
 
HmBe said:
Yeah I'm happy with the pigeon hole principle, although I can't quite see how it applies as a can be any natural number or 0, so surely the size of set A is infinite?

That can't be meant, because the pigeonhole principle can only be used if ##\mathcal A## is finite. So ##0\leq a,b<\sqrt p## probable means ##(0\leq a<\sqrt p)## and ##(0\leq b<\sqrt p)##. This would give you ##|\mathcal A| < (\sqrt p+1)^2 = p+2\sqrt p+1##.

Now I'd look at the function ##f(x,y)=x^2+2y^2## for all pairs ##(x,y)\in\mathcal A##.
 
Ah right yeah I thought they were too separate inequalities which really messed me up. Quite simple now.

Got down to this..

(b-b')^2 + 2(a-a')^2 = pk

for some integer k.

I'm having a little struggle getting rid of the k (so to speak).

a, b, a', b' are all < sqrt(p)

so

(b-b')^2 + 2(a-a')^2 < 3p

so k < 3

if k = 1 we're fine, no worries.

but what about the k = 2 case? I feel like I should return to the x^2 = -2 (mod p) to get some fact about p I could use...?

Thanks for the help.
 

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